Requiring Owners to Illuminate Exterior Lights from Dusk to Dawn

With the covenants silent on this topic, and in my opinion, yes, an owner's court challenge to the HOA requiring exterior coach lights to be illuminated from dusk to dawn would ultimately be successful.

Would the challenger's argument most likely center around being mandated to pay for an amenity (i.e. illumination of coach lights) they might not want or need?

This rule hasn't been enacted. It has been proposed for esthetic purposes. I see this rule as akin to mandating each owner have lighted holiday decorations on the exterior of their house. I don't think people should be required to pay for an amenity not on the common area they might not want or need.

The challenger's argument is that:

-- The courts recognize covenants to be a contract.

-- Nothing in the covenants requires owners to keep the lights on from dusk to dawn.

-- Hence what the board wants to do is a violation of the terms of the contract (the covenants).

-- The Board only has authority to enforce actual covenants.

-- Courts will not read extra into covenants. The requirement for these lights to be on is either there, or it isn't.

I disagree with TimB4's estimate of the costs of this lawsuit to an Owner and to the HOA. The discovery for such a suit would be hardly anything. Any lawsuit on this matter would be almost entirely about the law. It might cost the HOA $10,000 in attorney fees. Also, in Arizona, I think an Owner can complain to a certain government agency and get a ruling on an alleged covenant violation.

We have street lights in our VA community.

In my TN community, we all have lights by the end of the drive (on top of the mailbox enclosure).
Once I started leaving mine on at night, many others saw the advantages and started doing the same.
Therefore, I don't think the issue would be raised.

Legally, Rules and Regulations have to be "reasonable" to even be enforceable. There also has to be some basis or jumping off point in the CCRs to even consider such a rule. Does the CCRs give the Association any such authority to create such a rule?

That being said, given the somewhat reckless actions of Arizona courts, is there anyone still sane that that state?

And I, living on a very dark street in TN, saw the issue as safety.

Just goes to prove that there are often many ways to look at things and people should take the time to try and see the issue from all perspectives.

More hypothetical.

For what it's worth, I think that's a pretty weak argument. People in communities with pools and such have tried to get out of paying full assessments because they don't use these amenities, and I can't think of a single instance in which this argument worked.

Even if it's a new amenity, if the community as a whole were in favor and the board believed it was in the community's best interest, I think that anyone who doesn't like it is out of luck. That's how things are supposed to work in HOAs.

However, I think there is too much light pollution, not to mention that it's putting more carbon into the air fer pity's sake. If the board is doing this for safety reasons, I'd maybe be OK with it ad long as they were taking other steps as well. If it's for aesthetics, I'd say thumbs down except maybe during the winter holidays.

This came right up on a simple search. California HOA, with the Board enacting the rule in January, 2018, to make sure people were not living in the garages. The HOA rescinded the rule just a few days after the media started writing about it.

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/hoa-forces-homeowners-to-leave-garage-doors-open-only-why/

https://jalopnik.com/dumbest-hoa-ever-gives-up-on-open-garage-door-policy-1821967915

https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article193685849.html

https://abc7news.com/hoa-garage-doors-sacramento-open-demands/2935472/

Thx. I do find a board worried about a hodgepodge appearance at night, on account of the irregular illumination from the coach lamps, to be strange in its sensibilities. When I have shopped for real estate, I have never gone at night.

I do acknowledge TimB4's point about exterior lighting and safety.

Who pays for the illumination (electricity) of these coach lights? Owners or HOA? Form the O.P, it sounds like owners py. In that sense the lights b ing illuminated are not what we typically call an "amenity."

If owners pay and the lights are on their property, I'm not sure what right the HOA has to demand they keep them on at night. Might be desirable and attractive, but even in HOAs, Owners have some rights about their own private property.

Nope, I think people tend to overthink things. It's impossible to predict anything in HOA land for a ton of reasons, starting with, but not limited to

* the people who first move into the community may have different lifestyles and goals than the people who eventually buy homes from the original owners. Some owners are very involved, others just pay the assessment and don't pay attention to anything else.

* people move into many HOAs not knowing ANYTHING about them - the developer doesn't tell them. Neither do the realtors who resell the homes years later. You don't know what you don't know when it comes to HOAs and many people don't read the pile of governing documents they get at closing. Sometimes they don't get anything and are shocked, shocked when they get a letter from the HOA board saying tear down this wall (er, fence)

* It's been said living in an HOA is like going to a bar and becoming business partners with everyone there. Thus, you don't know who's responsible, a raging drunk or something in between. Some people are very responsible, others not so much and you usually don't find out until much later

* people are so hell-bent on getting their way that they try to bulldoze over people, when in fact, you need to understand the world doesn't rise and set on your behind. Sometimes the answer really is NO and you have to share the community with everyone else, whether you think that makes sense or not.

* and when people don't get their way, they scream "I'll sue you!" Some people are intimidated by that to the point they don't take a stand and do anything. Others refuse to recognize they're about to get their behind handed to them, and in the end, the only people who win are the lawyers. Still others refuse to accept that the world doesn't rise and set on their behind - sometimes the answer really is NO, whether you like it or not.

* life is rarely A or B - most things are some sort of combination and some people have trouble with addressing nuances.

When it comes to rules, you simply can't legislate everything, nor should you. Some things really need to be a matter of common sense. In this instances, why DOES Np's board feel this is important? A safety issue I can see because burglars, vandals and what not like to work where they can't be seen. On the other hand, some lights may be so bright, it could create a driving hazard. If you live in a community near a lot of wildlife, the lights can throw off migrating birds. I recall seeing something about this on the National Geographic channel - sonar in submarines can throw off whales for a similar reason.

Anyway, this is a rule that doesn't exist, at least not yet, so instead of worrying about someone suing, Np and his neighbors may get further along if they all get together and tell the board in no uncertain terms it's a stupid idea. Raise enough of a stink and the board will back down. They may find one person is pushing this, but if he or she is only one vote, the rest can grow a pair and vote the whole thing down.

Nothing hypothetical at all about my posts. A sage Board examines the legalities and legal risks of their potential decisions.

NpB: Who pays for electricity for these coach lights? Owners? HOA?

Owners.

My two cents is this subject is a perfect example of "pick your battles wisely". I can't imagine spending any meaningful amount of time on this issue and if a Board was willing to enlist a lawyer on this I would question their judgement. Unless your HOA is one well oiled machine there has to be better issues to deal with than this.

My question is what do you do when it's Halloween? It's known if you have your front porch light open your giving candy... It's like regulating "Halloween" front door tradition year long.

This is a planned community. Our HOA has architectural guidelines and when they are changed to reflect new paint colors, each owner has to repaint their unit to abide by them. I'm thinking one could make the same comparison with requiring each owner to illuminate their coach lights at night. However, from another perspective, these coach lights are the maintenance and responsibility of each unit owner and are not on common property.

How far can the HOA go to regulate private property?

I still don't understand all the hubbub on something that isn't officially a rule yet. NpB, you bring up some good points, so why don't you go ahead and tell the board how you feel - stop making things more complicated than what's necessary.

You can't predict what your neighbors will or won't do regarding a lawsuit or anything else. When the board considers a new rule or changing a current one, they should start by considering if there's a problem, how extensive is it, and what options are available to address it (sometimes problems can be reduced by simply reminding owners of the rule or common courtesy). It also helps to poll the homeowners - if you don' have a ton of people up in arms over something, it's probably a waste of time to enact the rule. If the board goes ahead with this and someone (you?) decides to sue, a judge will figure it out. If you win, great, if not, file an appeal or live with it.

You will drive yourself insane with some of these hypotheticals. Maybe it's just me, but it's a lot easier and faster to talk to your neighbors and if they feel the same, they can also tell the board.

Really? It seems clear to me that the rule is under consideration. If enacted, the hubbub will increase exponentially.

Well said.

The responses I have received so far do help, although I don't think there is a clear cut non-subjective answer to this issue and it may be beyond the knowledge of most people on this forum, since this is not a legal forum. Often court cases establish precedent and case law on issues and there are HOA attorneys that answer reader's questions in newspapers that are available to read online. Those are helpful with guidance. I could fine none in the case of mandating exterior light be illuminated from dusk to dawn. I appreciate all the replies I have received.

For the archives: The court cases are there, and in Arizona. The responses here at hoatalk in fact mostly or entirely do represent what the case law says. But it takes a certain background and/or level of education to understand the case law.

In short: Ack!