Why so difficult???

Started by SamanthaB4 • 7 replies • 543 views

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SamanthaB4 (Florida)
Posts: 10

Posted:

I haven’t been rude or anything. I’ve just requested to see the hoa’s books. Whatever you want to call them. Why is it so difficult. Also, besides a lawyer, who can I homeowner contact for help with being ignored after registered letters have been sent and beyond the ten day wait

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

It would be real interesting to see the contents of one of these letters you sent. Were they vague like some of your posts here?

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SamanthaB4 on 02/06/2021 3:18 PM
I haven’t been rude or anything. I’ve just requested to see the hoa’s books. Whatever you want to call them. Why is it so difficult. Also, besides a lawyer, who can I homeowner contact for help with being ignored after registered letters have been sent and beyond the ten day wait

Are you getting ready to demand pre-suit mediation? That should be your next step. That followed by small claims court should be your next steps. After that, you're probably going to need legal advice. There's no one here that can or will give you that. There's no such thing in Florida as the "HOA Police". Every few years we have homeowners get angry and threaten to "go to the state". The state will ignore you unless there's theft going on and then you might be able to get a prosecutor or state's attorney involved. Other than that, there's no one in any state agency that will help you. You can write several letters a week to the State Attorney General, but there's no path to relief doing that. They'll ignore your letters.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 02/06/2021 3:48 PM
It would be real interesting to see the contents of one of these letters you sent. Were they vague like some of your posts here?

I will bet money they request everything and anything.

Our financials will show say an expenditure to so and so and when but unless one dug through tons of Emails they would be hard pressed to see anything else on the expenditure and our MC is more automated then many associations and in at least one specific expenditure ($3,500 for retention pond fountain replacement) our MC only has an Email of an electronic contract and a record of when paid. It would not show what went back and forth between the BOD discussing the matter, meetings with vendors, final selection, etc. Information can/will be only so deep.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

A budget is NEVER EVER set in stone. So staying on "Budget" just means your in the ball park of what you have to spend.

Saw where you wanted receipts to verify all the numbers? Seriously what do you think your wanting to confirm or deny? For what purpose? Your HOA is a non-profit. So as long as no profit at the end of the year and a good reserve account (if required/needed) your HOA is good. Nickel and diming things are just a "witch hunt".

Now will give you a real life example of receipts. I was also on the "Clubhouse committee" where responsible for supplying the clubhouse with cleaning supplies/maintenance items. If I was a Walmart I would also pick up things like some bulk paper towels or some spray cleaner. These were things that were allowed to be reimbursed as HOA supplies/expenses. I would circle them on the receipt and submit the WHOLE receipt. Now if your going to demand to see receipts are you going to say the HOA paid for my groceries??? NO.

There is no magical separate "HOA bank card" in our HOA. Officers or some committee members were granted to be allowed to submit receipts to be reimbursed if it was a HOA related expense. Example: The Secretary needed paper and ink for their printer to print out HOA documents they were reimbursed. It's part of their job duties of the HOA.

So what are you trying to "prove" so you can make some kind of big splash here of malcontent? Need some focus because VIEWING documents is allowed but don't expect free copies. Don't expect documents with anyone's personal information either. The scope of which you ask for may not be the scope the HOA or anyone needs to provide.

Former HOA President

ClareL (California)
Posts: 29

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/07/2021 9:55 AM
A budget is NEVER EVER set in stone. So staying on "Budget" just means your in the ball park of what you have to spend.

Saw where you wanted receipts to verify all the numbers? Seriously what do you think your wanting to confirm or deny? For what purpose? Your HOA is a non-profit. So as long as no profit at the end of the year and a good reserve account (if required/needed) your HOA is good. Nickel and diming things are just a "witch hunt".

Now will give you a real life example of receipts. I was also on the "Clubhouse committee" where responsible for supplying the clubhouse with cleaning supplies/maintenance items. If I was a Walmart I would also pick up things like some bulk paper towels or some spray cleaner. These were things that were allowed to be reimbursed as HOA supplies/expenses. I would circle them on the receipt and submit the WHOLE receipt. Now if your going to demand to see receipts are you going to say the HOA paid for my groceries??? NO.

There is no magical separate "HOA bank card" in our HOA. Officers or some committee members were granted to be allowed to submit receipts to be reimbursed if it was a HOA related expense. Example: The Secretary needed paper and ink for their printer to print out HOA documents they were reimbursed. It's part of their job duties of the HOA.

So what are you trying to "prove" so you can make some kind of big splash here of malcontent? Need some focus because VIEWING documents is allowed but don't expect free copies. Don't expect documents with anyone's personal information either. The scope of which you ask for may not be the scope the HOA or anyone needs to provide.

Melissa,

Even though HOA’s are non-profits, embezzlement may still occur. Below is a link of a GM (employee of HOA, not MC) and a contractor stealing close to 2.8 million. All stolen by faking receipts and adjusting the budgets. The HOA is near why I live and it was a big deal down here.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/independentamericancommunities.com/2015/09/18/2-8m-embezzled-from-hoa-after-two-year-investigation-former-woodlake-manager-charged-booked-for-theft-pleads-not-guilty/amp/

I also suggest for anyone making personal and business purchases to make two seperate transactions.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Samantha,

It's difficult because people are human and they don't like being checked up on.
Not everyone is like that, but many are.
With the pandemic, many might be concerned setting up a review session.

Are you asking for copies or to review?

Also, are you asking to review everything or specific items?

If your asking for everything, it can be perceived as a witch hunt and you likely aren't going to get good responses.

FL may be different, but most States don't allow you to see individual lot accounts (assessment payments) other than your own. Keep this in mind when requesting to review records.

It's also possible that those on the board who have the records are dealing with other issues more important to them (family, work, etc.) and simply can't find the time to respond.

I would suggest sending the request via certified mail to the registered agent (typically an attorney but doesn't have to be). In the request, specify that since you haven't heard from the board, you are sending the request via more official channels. Specify the date and include copies of the receipt for the certified mail you sent earlier.

MiaR1 (Illinois)
Posts: 46

Posted:

If the association is ignoring your request to see the financial documents, that should raise red flags. It’s my understanding that CC&Rs, every state law, gives the homeowner the right to inspect these documents with proper written notice. Another thing you can try to do is get a petition signed by a certain percentage of owners(check your CC&R) and demand financial records and demand a special meeting.

I don’t like condos or associations because of impropriety with owners finances, but, can’t afford private home, nor want to go back to living on rent. For the sake of having a home, I live in a self managed condo association. We’ve had years of embezzlement issues which are clear from checks and receipts, still, no recourse from state attorney general. Others advice is correct about your next steps. It’s quite funny that home ownership is the most expensive transaction in every person’s life, government functions partially on property taxes, but, as home owners, there is not much help out there for us. So while we fund everything from HOA fees to property taxes for the HOA and government to function, they both have systems in place to screw homeowners over.

My apologies if my comments may offend anyone on this forum, but, I have no such intentions. I am just a very frustrated home owner who has seen years of theft in her condo association and when I tried to do something about it, state dept showed me the middle finger as well. While the embezzling owner is still living on premises and going about her life as nothing happened. Only our HOA was left with practically no money, and our building in need of extensive repairs since for years no planning was ever done. Owners apathy is a big problem in our association.

So not sure about your circumstances, but, tread carefully so you don’t turn into a frustrated owner like me.

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