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RonM19 (Texas)
Posts: 41
Posted:
An HOA denies an architectural application from a property owner who wants to build an improvement on his property.

The owner believes there was no supportable basis for denying the application, and sues the HOA.

The lawsuit drags out for several months, and the HOA incurs considerable legal expenses.

Ultimately, the court agrees with the owner and orders the HOA to approve the application.

The HOA increases the annual assessment (dues) to cover the legal costs it incurred during the lawsuit.

Question: The property owners are angry: "why should WE pay money because YOU screwed up and got sued?" Since the HOA was culpable, can the property owners sue the HOA for the additional assessment expense?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Have not learned your lessons yet? Just lick your wounds and move on. Don't do the same thing again.

BTW: Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors... Do you want to keep proving this?

Former HOA President
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonM19 on 01/17/2021 8:46 AM
An HOA denies an architectural application from a property owner who wants to build an improvement on his property.

The owner believes there was no supportable basis for denying the application, and sues the HOA.

The lawsuit drags out for several months, and the HOA incurs considerable legal expenses.

Ultimately, the court agrees with the owner and orders the HOA to approve the application.

The HOA increases the annual assessment (dues) to cover the legal costs it incurred during the lawsuit.

Question: The property owners are angry: "why should WE pay money because YOU screwed up and got sued?" Since the HOA was culpable, can the property owners sue the HOA for the additional assessment expense?


If the HOA believes it was duly enforcing covenants & restrictions, then a court case is likely. It's more damaging to the community, over time, to NOT enforce good-faith rules interpretations under threat of being sued. This is very unfortunate

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
You should ask the homeowners exactly who they think the HOA is and who it consists of.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonM19 on 01/17/2021 8:46 AM
An HOA denies an architectural application from a property owner who wants to build an improvement on his property. The owner believes there was no supportable basis for denying the application, and sues the HOA. The lawsuit drags out for several months, and the HOA incurs considerable legal expenses. Ultimately, the court agrees with the owner and orders the HOA to approve the application. The HOA increases the annual assessment (dues) to cover the legal costs it incurred during the lawsuit. Question: The property owners are angry: "why should WE pay money because YOU screwed up and got sued?" Since the HOA was culpable, can the property owners sue the HOA for the additional assessment expense?
-- Rarely does a Board's decision-making on lawsuits rise to a level where the membership could prevail in a suit against the directors. Why? Because judges do not like holding volunteer directors to such a high standard that no one would volunteer to be a director.

-- I can guarantee you that a judge or an appeals court would ask the members why they did not watch the financial statements; observe the hemorrhage of funds occurring, on account of the lawsuit; challenge the board on this; and then as needed seek to recall the board or replace the board at the next election. Then the new board can stop the lawsuit.

-- The property owners should be angry with themselves for not simply exercising their rights under the covenants to replace the board.

-- I know from where you are coming. I sit here helping someone with a frivolous lawsuit, brought by
HOA. I am hopeful the lawsuit will cost the members a great deal of money, maybe causing a change in the board. But when half of owners are out of town landlords, the chances of these out-of-town owners stepping up to be on the board is like none. They are happy to pay $400 to $1000 each by way of a special assessment rather than serve on the board.

-- The question of how honest must a board be with its members regarding the progress of litigation has come up at this forum many times. It's not clear. I can say that all lawsuits are public record. A board can always say, "The lawsuit records are public. On advice of the HOA attorney, we cannot comment further."
RonM19 (Texas)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/17/2021 9:01 AM
Have not learned your lessons yet? Just lick your wounds and move on. Don't do the same thing again.

BTW: Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors... Do you want to keep proving this?

There's no need to be so condescending. Your attitude is typical of the "the Board is God" mindset we see so often.

In this case, for what it's worth, the HOA BOD denied an architectural application for something that it had approved for many other owners. It was a classic case of selective enforcement. The project was, in fact, a clear violation of the CCRs, but this was ignored in the case of the other owners, because of personal bias and favoritism. This was confessed in private conversation with one of the HOA board members.

The presence of selective enforcement practice negated the CCR's rule against the project. This was the court's finding.

Now the HOA board is suggesting to the rest of us that our annual fees may be increased to cover the legal costs of the lawsuit, and of course everybody is pissed.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
For crying out loud stop taking the "Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors" as anything but FACT. It is a FACT and a Consequence. Just the way it is like it or not. I can't change the rules no matter if I agree or disagree with this fact.

The fact is your HOA is ONLY funded by it's owners for it's owners. So to cover it bills frivolous or justified, you all have to pay in the pot. So next time I hope you all learned your lesson from this little exercise and correct how things were handled. That is where you real problem lies NOT the increase in dues. That is the solution or result.

Former HOA President
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/17/2021 9:56 AM
For crying out loud stop taking the "Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors" as anything but FACT. It is a FACT and a Consequence. Just the way it is like it or not. I can't change the rules no matter if I agree or disagree with this fact.

The fact is your HOA is ONLY funded by it's owners for it's owners. So to cover it bills frivolous or justified, you all have to pay in the pot. So next time I hope you all learned your lesson from this little exercise and correct how things were handled. That is where you real problem lies NOT the increase in dues. That is the solution or result.

To answer the question in the original post: sure, owners can sue for anything, but it's unlikely that they'd prevail.

To answer the post above: suing your HOA isn't necessarily suing yourself or your neighbors. It's suing an entity (often a corporation), and the damages may be paid by HOA funds or by insurance or others, such as a property manager or individual directors. Sometimes the remedy may involve "equitable relief"--forcing the HOA to do something, such as hold a fair election or stop harassing owners.

Suing an HOA is sometimes a necessary step to improve the HOA and ensure that it functions well.
RonM19 (Texas)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/17/2021 9:01 AM
Have not learned your lessons yet? Just lick your wounds and move on. Don't do the same thing again.

BTW: Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors... Do you want to keep proving this?

There's no need to be so condescending. Your attitude is typical of the "the Board is God" mindset we see so often.

In this case, for what it's worth, the HOA BOD denied an architectural application for something that it had approved for many other owners. It was a classic case of selective enforcement. The project was, in fact, a clear violation of the CCRs, but this was ignored in the case of the other owners, because of personal bias and favoritism. This was confessed in private conversation with one of the HOA board members.

The presence of selective enforcement practice negated the CCR's rule against the project. This was the court's finding.

Now the HOA board is suggesting to the rest of us that our annual fees may be increased to cover the legal costs of the lawsuit, and of course everybody is pissed.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonM19 on 01/17/2021 10:50 AM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/17/2021 9:01 AM
Have not learned your lessons yet? Just lick your wounds and move on. Don't do the same thing again.

BTW: Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors... Do you want to keep proving this?


There's no need to be so condescending. Your attitude is typical of the "the Board is God" mindset we see so often.

In this case, for what it's worth, the HOA BOD denied an architectural application for something that it had approved for many other owners. It was a classic case of selective enforcement. The project was, in fact, a clear violation of the CCRs, but this was ignored in the case of the other owners, because of personal bias and favoritism. This was confessed in private conversation with one of the HOA board members.

The presence of selective enforcement practice negated the CCR's rule against the project. This was the court's finding.

Now the HOA board is suggesting to the rest of us that our annual fees may be increased to cover the legal costs of the lawsuit, and of course everybody is pissed.

Then sue the directors individually for breach of fiduciary duty. That's hard to do, but that's the route to take.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Ron,

Who is "we?"
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Anyone can use for anything, but winning the lawsuit and getting paid can be different issues. There's always a risk you might lose a lawsuit, which is why they should be The last resort. You also need to consider how far you want to go because if you do lose, you'll have legal costs and The judgement to pay out. As your community found out The hard way, The only people who usually win no matter what are The attorneys.

That doesn't mean legal action wasn't necessary. It could mean the board may have had a weak case to begin with and didn't listen to reason. Perhaps the association attorney tried to tell them this was a lost cause. Or the judge simply thought this owner had a better case. Some judges don't like HOAs no matter what The issue is and are likely to rule against them.

Since the HOA board oversees the association's affairs, this can mean authorizing legal action. That doesn't guarantee victory, and as long as they took spare action to handle the situation before resorting to a lawsuit, the homeowners probably won't have cause to hold them personally responsible for the legal expenses. Google business judgement rule for more information. In fact, you should be able to do that on this website and get some insight as to what it means.

As for the board, if the homeowners are honked off about this, nothing's stopping them from voting them out in the next board election of even doing a recall. Check your documents to see how that's done. However, you should be careful of uninterrupted consequences. If you wind up with a board that's afraid to pull the trigger and take necessary action because it may bacfire, they might not do much of anything, which won't help the association in the long run. Instead, look at the ARC process and see if it needs to be tweaked, such as being more specific on why a request is denied. Sometimes the decision is based on nonsense, not the documents.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Understand you can be 100% correct in bringing your lawsuit against the HOA or 100% wrong doing it. Either way there are consequences for this for you and your neighbors. That is why the HOA is set up so it can change rules or board by majority votes. If enough people don't like the decision the HOA makes they can vote to change the rule or out the board. All this without a lawsuit.

It is why it's best if your going to sue your HOA, you do it as a group not an individual. However, if you have enough people angry then you never have to go to court. Just your HOA meetings to make changes.

Good luck in suing individual board member. Most HOA's are insured for such protections of their board members. Plus the court ONLY makes one "Whole". So a bad decision just gets reversed. Any money would be punitive which would rarely be awarded in a court.

Former HOA President
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
If an owner sues a HOA and that results in a bad board shaping up, that can be a really good thing.

Say the legal fees that the HOA incurs are $50,000, and the damages paid by the HOA are $50,000, but the bad board shapes up, starts following the governing documents and the like, and the values of the properties in the HOA go up by $100,001, then suing the HOA resulted in owners being better off.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonM19 on 01/17/2021 8:46 AM
An HOA denies an architectural application from a property owner who wants to build an improvement on his property.

The owner believes there was no supportable basis for denying the application, and sues the HOA.

The lawsuit drags out for several months, and the HOA incurs considerable legal expenses.

Ultimately, the court agrees with the owner and orders the HOA to approve the application.

The HOA increases the annual assessment (dues) to cover the legal costs it incurred during the lawsuit.

Question: The property owners are angry: "why should WE pay money because YOU screwed up and got sued?" Since the HOA was culpable, can the property owners sue the HOA for the additional assessment expense?


DUH!!!!! You are the HOA
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 01/17/2021 5:13 PM
Posted By RonM19 on 01/17/2021 8:46 AM
An HOA denies an architectural application from a property owner who wants to build an improvement on his property.

The owner believes there was no supportable basis for denying the application, and sues the HOA.

The lawsuit drags out for several months, and the HOA incurs considerable legal expenses.

Ultimately, the court agrees with the owner and orders the HOA to approve the application.

The HOA increases the annual assessment (dues) to cover the legal costs it incurred during the lawsuit.

Question: The property owners are angry: "why should WE pay money because YOU screwed up and got sued?" Since the HOA was culpable, can the property owners sue the HOA for the additional assessment expense?



DUH!!!!! You are the HOA

Is there a specific reason to be so rude?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/17/2021 9:56 AM
For crying out loud stop taking the "Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors" as anything but FACT. It is a FACT and a Consequence. Just the way it is like it or not.

It's not in the state of Florida. Like it or not.

From FS 720.305: "A member prevailing in an action between the association and the member under this section, in addition to recovering his or her reasonable attorney fees, may recover additional amounts as determined by the court to be necessary to reimburse the member for his or her share of assessments levied by the association to fund its expenses of the litigation."

Seems to me as though you're the one with a tenuous grip on facts.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Geno

I know Roger is not in Florida but if he were I would not agree with your interpretation except as it would apply to the plaintiff in the action--

Rogers question was: Question: The property owners are angry: "why should WE pay money because YOU screwed up and got sued?" Since the HOA was culpable, can the property owners sue the HOA for the additional assessment expense?

FS720.305 you quoted refers to "... a member prevailing in an action . . . ."

To me, the other members of the Association are not excused from being invoiced their pro rata share of an assessment created to recover the costs of the action.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I agree with ChrisE8 and GenoS.

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