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RobertZ1 (Michigan)
Posts: 66
Posted:
I am on a newly structured board that has some old and new problems, we specifically do not follow Robert's Rules or Parlimentary Procedure. We have observed past practice as a guide for our actions, and used some of the forms of parlimentary procedure, to guide the structure of our processes, decisions and actions.

In the past when voting, the President would only vote on an issue when there was a tie. The new Board President has in the past supported this as appropriate action. Now that "HE" is President and an issue has come up that he is personally related to, he has decided to vote on that motion. How do I tell him that it is not appropriate and entirely improper for him to voice his opinion with a vote, yet still keep some dignity about the removal of his vote from the count. I made the motion and was seconded, and called for the vote (e-mail process).

Next problem, a board member is voting on this motion that has a personal conflict of interest (it is her request for reimbursement), which involves the same motion. How do I explain to her, that this represents a personal conflict of interest, and that means your vote on this motion should be to "abstain".

The other members of the board (seven '7' member)minus the President and this member, are the only board members able to decide this action (motion) with their votes. I know this, but I also know, I will have a problem with these board members and possibly other board members who will not like the outcome of this vote, with two of their supporters removed from the vote results.

Please advise, so that I can handle this in an amicable and equitable fashion. This would go a long way to establish some decorum for a newly seated board with some old problems.

P.S. Yes I have given a draft of a code of conduct, rules of order, but they have yet to be adopted by this board! I know, I know.

Thank You All
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Robert, Check for Michigan HOA laws and your docs. In VA, the Prop Assoc act, defines conflict of interest (broadened in in July 2007) and our docs address this as well, to the point that if a Director fails to disclose an interest and a vote passes based his/her vote, then later that resolution or action can be overturned based on the lack of disclosure at the time of the vote.

______________________________________________________________________________

Nonstock Corportation Act.
Includes a definition for "disinterested director" for the purpose of determining whether a director has a conflict of interest. A “disinterest director” is defined as “a director who does not have (i) a financial interest in a matter that is the subject of such action or (ii) a familial, financial, professional, employment, or other relationship with a person who has a financial interest in the matter, either of which would reasonably be expected to affect adversely the objectivity of the director when participating in the
action, and if the action is to be taken under § 13.1-878 or 13.1-880, is also
not a party to the proceeding. •

Conflicts of interest on page 15 of the Articles of Incorporation.
Any common or interested directors or Officers may be counted in determining the presence of a Quorum of any meeting of the board of Directors, a committee thereof, or transaction, but such director's vote shall not be counted with respect to any matter as to which such director would have a conflict of interest; such director may void, however, at the meeting to authorize any other contract or transaction.

Important Also- See also Section 9.2. where a contract can be voided after the vote if certain conditions are not met in terms of disclosure.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertZ1 on 10/18/2007 11:14 AM
I am on a newly structured board that has some old and new problems, we specifically do not follow Robert's Rules or Parlimentary Procedure. We have observed past practice as a guide for our actions, and used some of the forms of parlimentary procedure, to guide the structure of our processes, decisions and actions.

In the past when voting, the President would only vote on an issue when there was a tie. The new Board President has in the past supported this as appropriate action. Now that "HE" is President and an issue has come up that he is personally related to, he has decided to vote on that motion. How do I tell him that it is not appropriate and entirely improper for him to voice his opinion with a vote, yet still keep some dignity about the removal of his vote from the count. I made the motion and was seconded, and called for the vote (e-mail process).

Next problem, a board member is voting on this motion that has a personal conflict of interest (it is her request for reimbursement), which involves the same motion. How do I explain to her, that this represents a personal conflict of interest, and that means your vote on this motion should be to "abstain".

The other members of the board (seven '7' member)minus the President and this member, are the only board members able to decide this action (motion) with their votes. I know this, but I also know, I will have a problem with these board members and possibly other board members who will not like the outcome of this vote, with two of their supporters removed from the vote results.

Please advise, so that I can handle this in an amicable and equitable fashion. This would go a long way to establish some decorum for a newly seated board with some old problems.

P.S. Yes I have given a draft of a code of conduct, rules of order, but they have yet to be adopted by this board! I know, I know.

Thank You All

Actually your president should be voting on every matter, he is wrong to say that he only votes in case of a tie.
RobertZ1 (Michigan)
Posts: 66
Posted:
Thank you Mike,

Our association charter only states that the Common Areas Chair have reasonable authority to purchase. No other officer may spend association monies, Charter states, "Treasurer is to disburse funds of the Association as may be ordered by the Board and take proper vouchers for such disbursements."

This is still a problem with board members misunderstanding that this means, that they can "only" be reimbursed for their request, when they are approved, and only then, can the Treasurer reimburse. We have a situation of a former President asking for retroactive reimbursement for unapproved expenses due to "her" decisions, with no "prior board knowledge or approval" of said expenses in her request and no explanations.

This newly elected Treasurer, immediately phoned and questioned the newly elected President, asking "why we did not discuss this request?" for reimbursement (former President handed it to new Treasurer after the board organizational meeting ended), and was told go ahead and pay it. She (new Treasurer)asked more questions and it became obvious to her that there were questionable expenses requested. She immediately suspected a problem and started consulting the former Treasurer who told her, those reimbursements were NOT approved. Back to the new President, who said pay the ones that you know are approved, and we'll (board) talk about the others at the next board meeting.

Here we are now having a vote (e-mail) to approve or disapprove previously unapproved expenses with a board that is not "ALL" fully aware of the former Presidents issues with a board that was not informed of her expenses and of some she as President, was told she could NOT be reimbursed for, what a mess.

Included in this, is the fact that the NEW President, in some way feels beholding to the past President, for his time on the Board and his involvement with requested expenses...again, what a mess.

So the NEW President has decided to vote in favor of reimbursement without regards to past practice (only voting in the case of a tie), and without regards to the fact that the monies we spend are our members, not our funds to hand out to those whom we feel pity upon, for mistakes they made of their own accord!
RobertZ1 (Michigan)
Posts: 66
Posted:
Brad,

As I stated, I am talking about the past practice of our board, I know that Roberts Rules and Parlimentary procedure muddy this issue. I am not trying to create a difficulty where there is not one. I did say that we still have not approved a set "rules of order", which would allow the President to vote if the board decides this to be procedure.

The actions of our board now is to get past this first issue before we get to the bigger ones down the road. Do not want to leave "a bad taste in everyones mouth" with what is a simple, yet to some at this point, confusing issue.

I do not want the HOA to believe that the board does as it pleases with expenses, because one member took advantage of our relationship, at a cost to all(including current members of our board).
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
RobertZ1 - First, Robert's Rules of Order???? Are you required in your bylaws to follow that parliamentary dogma? If not, why are you? Second, why are you voting via email? That's behind closed doors, don't all matters that require a binding vote have to occur in an open meeting with an agenda posted in a prominent place? If so, I think you need to focus on that ethical battle rather than tackle any supposed conflict of interest.
RobertZ1 (Michigan)
Posts: 66
Posted:
Joe,

Our Charter does not state a specific procedure to follow for our board vote and actions. Only our annual meeting has an "order of business"which may vary at the discretion of the presiding officer, the by-laws state that the "majority of directors" is all that is needed for an action to be valid.

Our HOA board e-mail votes, are noted on the agenda and recorded at the next scheduled board meeting, with the motions and results. All issues discussed in these e-mail votes are for the purposes of running the association without having to meet every month (we meet bi-monthly).

Some of our board members are snowbirds(Michigan)and this allows all board members to be in communication on issues here, like you and I now!
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
RobertZ1 - Don't compare our communication on issues here to what should occur per state law. Votes, typcially are to occur in open session. I understand the convenience of email but also understand it's limitations.

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