Background checks on property managers

Started by ChrisE8 • 27 replies • 581 views

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ChrisE8
Posts: 454

Posted:

I'm still on the email list of a HOA in NC where I sold a property a few weeks ago. The property manager had been sued, with allegations of various misconduct.

One owner who had been feuding on the email list with the property manager ran a background check of the property manager. The background checked showed that the property manager had been sued and arrested before (both involving taking money). The court filings and police records were all emailed to the entire HOA.

The owner was mad and asked the board (via the email to all owners) why the property manager had been hired, with that kind of background.

I also was working with another property manager (unrelated to this HOA) and found troubling information about his background. The property manager replied to the whole HOA, stating that the background check was "fake news", although the records seemed official. The board has not commented.

So: before your HOA hires a property manager, do you run a background check? Seems like a wise thing to do, at least for the person who will be handling property management day-to-day and financial matters for your HOA.

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ChrisE8 on 12/25/2020 2:32 PM
I'm still on the email list of a HOA in NC where I sold a property a few weeks ago. The property manager had been sued, with allegations of various misconduct.

One owner who had been feuding on the email list with the property manager ran a background check of the property manager. The background checked showed that the property manager had been sued and arrested before (both involving taking money). The court filings and police records were all emailed to the entire HOA.

The owner was mad and asked the board (via the email to all owners) why the property manager had been hired, with that kind of background.

I also was working with another property manager (unrelated to this HOA) and found troubling information about his background. The property manager replied to the whole HOA, stating that the background check was "fake news", although the records seemed official. The board has not commented.

So: before your HOA hires a property manager, do you run a background check? Seems like a wise thing to do, at least for the person who will be handling property management day-to-day and financial matters for your HOA.

Why stop there, why not every board member who has access to HOA funds?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Considering the HOA has no rights to anyone's social security numbers... How would it be done? Just can check for a business for license, insurance, and reviews on BBB. Basic search you do for any contractor.

Former HOA President

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/25/2020 5:00 PM
Considering the HOA has no rights to anyone's social security numbers... H

NOT TRUE!

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

John,

Would be easier to simply explain your point, yes?

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Surely some HOA/condo insurers require background checks of HOA directors or HOA officers having access to HOA funds. Especially if fidelity bonds are involved. Granted the insurer may keep the outcome of said check to itself, though informing the HOA that it would not grant a fidelity bond or insurance as long as convicted felon John Doe is on the board or is an officer with access to funds.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

We have a manager company, but I would expect it to do the necessary background checks on anyone they'd hire to work with their clients. In fact, doing one's due diligence on any contractor should be something any sensible board would do.

I've spoken before of boards needing to be careful that they don't allow the property manager to do its collective thinking and this is why. I don't know how long ago this person was arrested and how much money was taken but For me this would be all the more reason a board should ask about a fiduciary bond I started hearing about these before I stepped down, and it's my understanding these are taken out be HOW's in part to help protect the association's assets from property managers behaving badly - embezzled stuff like that.

By the way, why are you STILL obsessing about a HOA you're no longer a part of? You sold the property, so why not focus on your new community? Unless watching this one implode will teach you what to look for in the future.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC77 on 12/25/2020 5:21 PM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/25/2020 5:00 PM
Considering the HOA has no rights to anyone's social security numbers... H

NOT TRUE!

Many HOA's, especially in Florida, require that rental/lease applicants have to first be approved by the Board. This requires a SS #. In addition, directors signing on association bank accounts have to provide SS# to comply with The Patriot Act.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

JohnC77 I don't think that applies to actual members. Renters are different and should be provided to their Landlord. Otherwise, I do not need to provide nor have it provided to me a social security #.

Former HOA President

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/25/2020 5:00 PM
Considering the HOA has no rights to anyone's social security numbers...

nDid you not say this?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You said your HOA's approve renters. Well that would then mean the owner gets the # from the Renter to do their background check. The owner then tells the board they conducted the background check. The board shouldn't be doing the background checks on a tenant. Owner responsibility.

Former HOA President

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/25/2020 7:05 PM
You said your HOA's approve renters. Well that would then mean the owner gets the # from the Renter to do their background check. The owner then tells the board they conducted the background check. The board shouldn't be doing the background checks on a tenant. Owner responsibility.

It's not my HOA, I don't live in one. This applies to HOA that do require them and Florida is loaded with them. What an HOA should and what a HOA does are two different issues.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Melissa,

Big world out there - while i’m not a condo guy, seems like i’ve read several summaries of condos directly doing this with both owners and renters.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC77 on 12/25/2020 5:21 PM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/25/2020 5:00 PM
Considering the HOA has no rights to anyone's social security numbers... H

NOT TRUE!

Agree. There are times the HOA needs this info.

One needs a SSN or the business TIN to issue 1099-misc.
Therefore, depending on the amount of money involved, the type of business or employment status - an HOA would require this information.

One is not required to provide the info.
However, it may jeopardize being hired.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I agree TimB IF the person is going to work as a 1099 contractor or be employed by the HOA, then yes SS# are required. This goes as an individual person that is being paid. However, membership or renters have no need to provide this to the HOA. Renters may need to give it to a member whom is going to be their landlord. That "landlord" member doesn't need to provide it to the HOA. Just the background check information they gathered.

Hiring a PM like a professional company your not got a SS# to gather. Your hiring a company. Who's SS# you supposed to get? None.

Would you provide your social security number to the HOA and why? I would not. They don't have a legal right to it nor am I going to volunteer it. I was even co-signer on our accounts. Never provided it ever. Would never either.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/26/2020 4:35 AM

Hiring a PM like a professional company your not got a SS# to gather. Your hiring a company. Who's SS# you supposed to get? None.

That would be a TIN or if the individual didn't establish a corporation, it would be their SSN.

As for HOAs or COAs requiring SSNs it would depend on their governing documents (i.e. background check requirements).
Background checks are occur in COAs.

See:

Condo association & HOA do they use your social security number to go back to your childhood names & schools you attended

My Condo association wants my social security number for a backround check. Do i have to give it them? how about just a Florida

Keep in mind that, there are requirements about who must have your SSN. Other then these situations, the issue comes down to if one is willing to provide it or simply refuse to do business with that company (personal choice here).

Who Needs Your Social Security Number? (And When to Refuse to Give it Out) from

If the Doctor Asks for Your Social Security Number, Do This - How to protect your privacy and still get good treatment from consumer reports

When are Social Security numbers required? from NBC news

Keep in mind, all associations (HOAs & COAs) have a duty regarding privacy rights:

HOAs have a responsibility to take reasonable precautions to protect members’ confidential information.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Yeah if your hiring an individual to do PM work, then you need their SS#. If your hiring a company, then TIN #. As for homeowners/members I say no. Is it a want or a need? I say you may want it but you don't need it...

Renters are not HOA members. So why would you as a renter provide it to a HOA? I would provide it to my landlord that is a member.

My concern is seeing how many people whom post here always complaining NOT seeing "All the records". If they are provided with them, then certain information is redacted. Which then convinces the "Tinfoil brigade" into all kind of conspiracy theories. Accidents happen where the records may not be redacted properly. Someone may accidently let a member read certain information like banking #'s on checks or other information outside the scope. Now the cat is out of the bag.

Former HOA President

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Melissa,

You keep making the same point that an association cannot ask for SSNs ... do you know this to be true in all 50 states?

I continue to read where many condo associations require this for both owners and renters. It isn't common, but it allows the association to have a say on who lives there.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

I believe that Melissa is saying that an HOA doesn't have a right to have the SSN.

Anyone can ask for it.
Many places do ask for it that don't have a right to have it.
See the article about the DRs office asking.

I think the point has been made on both sides.

Can an Association ask for an SSN to do background checks - YES
Must someone give the Association their SSN - NO
If an SSN is not provided will there be consequences - Probably

Consequences may include:

Not getting the property (if the Association has right of refusal - and some do)
Not getting the job
having 20% of the pay withheld if not provided for a 1099-misc.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Let me give you an example... When job hunting often will get applications that asks for your Social Security #. Now here is the "thing". You do NOT have the job yet. Have NOT been interviewed nor contacted. Why are you providing a company with so much personal information when you don't work for them?

There is no need to agree to a background check from a company prior to being interviewed. You agree to it AFTER the interview and job OFFER. If I have NOT been offered the job, then why am I handing a stranger or a company the right to my social security #?

You may THINK that you are required to give this out because it just makes sense. No. Being asked or it being on a form does NOT make it a requirement. It is a request. Until it is a NEED, you can decline. Same with a HOA. Why provide them your social security # just because they request it? They are not a BANK, employer, credit card company, or a utility.

Former HOA President

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

BTW: You can most likely sue if you do face any consequences because you did not provide your Social Security #. It just you have to prove it was the sole reason why they turned you down versus the other person.

Former HOA President

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I’m thinking of my time at several aerospace companies ... someone doesn’t provide SSN we couldn’t check clearances, no answer on that spot, then they seem evasive.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Melissa,

You seem to be repeating what I said without mentioning the part about potential consequences.

Again, anyone can ask. You make the decision to provide or not. Be aware that there may be consequences for not providing.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

George you only need to check for that AFTER the job OFFER. It is NOT on the job APPLICATION. This is what drives me crazy about filling those forms out. There are way too many of those "Head hunters" that are just building up their "Resume farms". I don't want my SS# floating amongst them. Bad enough my resume is.

I will fill out a social security number on a W2 not on the application. A good HR person will know they can't take any actions for not doing so. It's not illegal to do it nor required.

Yes TimB I did repeat what you were saying. Seems good things need to be repeated to some...

Former HOA President

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Sorry, Melissa, but we tossed any applications without SSNs.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

That is okay with me. Many won't let you complete it without it. Just indicates to me that HR ain't on their game.

Former HOA President

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Sure.

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