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GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
So here’s a good one. Our high rise condo instituted a mandatory indoor common area mask rule, which coincides w Dade county. $100/ violation, with fines issued periodically. There is limited security, and the Board has told residents to report serial violators, which must have proof- photos. One resident with an elderly mother there photographed a mask violation, and the person was fined. This week, the reporting person was doing laundry (common area), and the mask offender walked in and said he was going to rip his face off if he photographed him again. He then got closer, and punched the in the stomach. No real damage, but obvious what happened. The police were called. The officer filled out the paperwork, and left it up to the reporting person to file charges. My question- should a condo board get involved with this assault, as it has to do with the person’s reporting of a violation? Should a warning letter, fine or other come from the board. I know the police are the primary here and am not questioning that, just inquiring what a Board can and should do (or not). Thanks.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
The reporting person should press charges and the association should continue to fine the serial violator. Of these two things, I think reporting an assault to the police and following up with pressing charges is the more important action.
GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
Thanks, I was thinking the same thing. Just seems that walking into a laundry room and punching someone for reporting a violation was a separate actionable offense/condo violation. Like a stretch of quiet enjoyment rules, or a form of backlash for reporting, which is definitely not allowed for Boards, just not spelled out for individuals.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GerryW1 on 12/18/2020 2:52 PM
Thanks, I was thinking the same thing. Just seems that walking into a laundry room and punching someone for reporting a violation was a separate actionable offense/condo violation. Like a stretch of quiet enjoyment rules, or a form of backlash for reporting, which is definitely not allowed for Boards, just not spelled out for individuals.
I too will hope that the police actually do something. In my experience, they tend to take on only the most serious cases of assault and battery.

Meanwhile, is the victim willing to file a complaint with the HOA about this physical battery? Can you cite a rule or covenant that was violated when one HOA member/resident punches another?
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Does Dade County have the same rule as your association and are they enforcing the rule if in fact they have one?
GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
From what I understand , a restraining order was denied. The assaulted person is apparently trying to press charges next week, but in the absence of physical injury likely won’t have a case. The Board was sent a complete report of the attack, and had recently fined the person. Assuming the police part goes nowhere, it seems that there is some duty of the Board to prevent harassment in this case. Not sure if so and under what rrule rule except quiet enjoyment (significantly affected by getting punched by mask less individuals).
GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC77 on 12/18/2020 3:05 PM
Does Dade County have the same rule as your association and are they enforcing the rule if in fact they have one?

Yes, Dade county has mask rules. The condo applied them with new emergency order. The governor is against all that (another story and part of the reason for mask civil war). Anyway, just looking for a general or specific condo rule which could protect the poor person who was just following reporting directions. We’ve already lost one 69 yo Board member to Covid.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
The board should look into the possibility of a restraining order on the person.
GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelS56 on 12/18/2020 4:18 PM
The board should look into the possibility of a restraining order on the person.

Not sure how that would go. The judge denied it in this case (probably would prefer resident is shot or stabbed, not just punched for reporting a violation)
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
GerryW1, are you on the Board?
GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 12/18/2020 4:43 PM
GerryW1, are you on the Board?

No. I’m on a different homeowner association Board. I just read that we do have a rule which doesn’t allow “disorderly, vulgar or inappropriate conduct”. The assaulted violated all three. I believe that will be a potential way for Board to approach this.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GerryW1 on 12/18/2020 5:05 PM
No. I’m on a different homeowner association Board. I just read that we do have a rule which doesn’t allow “disorderly, vulgar or inappropriate conduct”. The assaulted violated all three. I believe that will be a potential way for Board to approach this.
As long as someone has evidence and files a complaint, and the rules and regulations for notice, due process et cetera are followed, you are correct.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
What kind of board asks its own residents to act as spies and take pictures of other residents?

I’m surprised somebody hasn’t sued the board for going way way way beyond its jurisdiction.
GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
Since there is a shortage of security personnel, and elderly people are dying in the building, the Board welcomes information concerning serial mask law violators. Even though there is security camera coverage of some violations, quick iPhone photos are often the best deterrent to careless behavior which endangers others. The Board can only act on complaints with evidence. The residents are happy to provide it, they are not being solicited. It’s always the same 10 people or so and visitors to a 28 story condo with slow elevators. I personally would have security posted in the lobbies, but they don’t have enough coverage. I expect many of the same violators won’t ever take the vaccine. Of course, it isn’t their parent and grandparents living in the building.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Agree with Augie. Call the violator to a hearing and fine him for bad conduct. Does your HOA have a way to double fines if the same violation occurs?

Does the attacker know who took his picture because he saw the person he punched take the pic?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Agree with Augie. Call the violator to a hearing and fine him for bad conduct. Does your HOA have a way to double fines if the same violation occurs?

Does the attacker know who took his picture because he saw the person he punched take the pic?
GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
Yes, attacker knows who provided the mask violation photo. It was a revenge attack. The Board president is saying it’s a police matter, but the police will never do anything since there was no damage (single punch to stomach- the assaulted person just took it without prolonged pain and called the police).
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Let me ask a different way, Jerry: How does the attacker know WHO reported him?
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/18/2020 7:10 PM
Let me ask a different way, Jerry: How does the attacker know WHO reported him?

He likely saw the person photographing him.
GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
I believe he saw the person taking photos in the lobby. There’s nothing to indicate any information was improperly released. It’s unfortunate that the act of documenting a violation puts people in potential jeopardy. Would be so much better simply relying on security footage or actual security guard. These high rise buildings are notorious for Covid spread (tight elevators, often stopping at many floors, especially if one isn’t working), narrow hallways. I would have a policy- no mask, no elevator. You can avoid people in the larger lobby, certainly outside anywhere. But elevators are death traps in high Covid locales like Miami.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks, Gerry. It's too bad the attacker saw his victim take his pic.

We're a (200+ pop.) high rise and have a strict mask rule and limit elevator occupants to one household, or if only one is in a cab they may invite one more in it. Our lower floor residents are opting for the stairs.

We've had two household with the virus, at least as reported to our PM. In both cases the residents had recently travelled.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks, Gerry. It's too bad the attacker saw his victim take his pic.

We're a (200+ pop.) high rise and have a strict mask rule and limit elevator occupants to one household, or if only one is in a cab they may invite one more in it. Our lower floor residents are opting for the stairs.

We've had two household with the virus, at least as reported to our PM. In both cases the residents had recently travelled.
GerryW1 (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
Thanks. Your rules are great, I wish ours were that safe. We have 3 forty year old elevators, at least one of which is always broken, compounding the risk. Need the vaccine ASAP.

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