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DavidS101 (Virginia)
Posts: 2
Posted:
What to get the opinion of anyone who may have had this scenario happen personally or with homeowners.

There were three homeowners incorrectly billed a lower HOA fee as there is a section of the addition that receives lawn care automatically and billed an additional $65 per month. However, the system incorrectly billed them the lower amount for the last 18 months before it was discovered.

Two of the owners are refusing to pay though there is documents that show the true amount of fee. Would we have a legal right to potential lien or sue if necessary if we do not receive the funds from the homeowners? Or since it was the error of the HOA on the accounting side, we are out that portion?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I would never sue for this amount. However, if they did receive the lawncare services, then they should pay their portion. If they did not receive the service, then it is void. The HOA has a right to collect because it should be known in the CC&R's or By-laws what your dues goes toward.

Let them know the court may see it as they received a service and did not pay for it. It may have been an error but it also was an expense they enjoyed.

Former HOA President
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I'd make the adjustment and begin collecting the revised amount going forward. The HOA didn't go bankrupt but has been inconvenienced because someone in charge of HOA accounting missed this.

I'd move on without delay after adjusting the dues rate and notifying those affected duespayers.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidS101 on 12/08/2020 3:38 PM
What to get the opinion of anyone who may have had this scenario happen personally or with homeowners.

There were three homeowners incorrectly billed a lower HOA fee as there is a section of the addition that receives lawn care automatically and billed an additional $65 per month. However, the system incorrectly billed them the lower amount for the last 18 months before it was discovered.

Two of the owners are refusing to pay though there is documents that show the true amount of fee. Would we have a legal right to potential lien or sue if necessary if we do not receive the funds from the homeowners? Or since it was the error of the HOA on the accounting side, we are out that portion?

$1170 per homeowner? You could take them to small claims court. You could claim that they were "unjustly enriched", I guess.

I'd just take it as a lesson learned, and move on. Be grateful for the one homeowner who paid despite not being obligated to.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidS101 on 12/08/2020 3:38 PM
Would we have a legal right to potential lien or sue if necessary if we do not receive the funds from the homeowners?
In my opinion, probably. I would not take them to court but instead, give proper notice and then record liens.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sounds like a letter to the owners in question, noting that a mistake was made, and showing the derivation of the accurate amount.

Give them time to accept the the data.

Any that don’t pay the amount noted get a certified letter summarizing the situation, with a date certain for payment, noting the usual fees and interest fir non payment.

If these are little numbers, just let it ride until it increases in amount due to interest etc and then a final letter resummarizing and noting the date certain the property will be liened.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
As an owner, if I paid a bill in full but then someone tried to put a lien on my property for nonpayment, it would be World War III.

I'd think long and hard before going after the 2 homeowners.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
And, to add, I have been in this situation.

The HOA tried all sorts of nonsense threats, etc. to get me to pay a bill that, by the documents that the HOA gave me, was not owed.

I would have paid it had the HOA been niece, but they were total *#(#s, and stupid to add; they did all sorts of stupid things.

Result? Litigation, an outcome that I was thrilled with, and removal of the board from office.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Mistakes are made. One just fixes them.

If an honest mistake was made ... did I miss something?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 12/08/2020 5:42 PM
As an owner, if I paid a bill in full but then someone tried to put a lien on my property for nonpayment, it would be World War III.
First, it sounds to me like the Owners had proper notice of what was owed, but somewhere along the way, the ball was dropped. Given that HOAs are nonprofits, I'd cut the HOA some slack, the same way I would expect the HOA to refund (or credit) me an amount it incorrectly accepted from me due to, say, putting the wrong amount on a check I wrote. Second, I think the Board has a fiduciary obligation to collect money owed it. Third, doing what you suggest forces the other members to make up the difference. I call this being a bad neighbor. Fourth, your response sounds like that of someone up against for-profit corporate America. One can often expect a lot of generosity from well-off, for-profit corporate America. I do not think the expectation should be the same for a non-profit.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 12/08/2020 5:53 PM
Mistakes are made. One just fixes them.

If an honest mistake was made ... did I miss something?

If an honest mistake is made, it should be corrected. "Sorry, we messed up, and I hope that you understand."

But when $1170 is at play, then a lot of people aren't going to just pay up, particularly when a HOA is involved. And if a HOA threatens a lien---that will quickly generate animosity.

I don't think that the HOA is on strong legal ground here. Even a mediocre litigator could likely come up with a winning argument, but the bills were paid in full: there was offer and acceptance and thus a binding contract.

I'd let it go. If anyone should pay up, it's the person in accounting.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
I think you must bill the homeowners involved. To not do so essentially increases the assessments for the other members of the Association. While the Association may have funds in accounts to make up for the shortfall, those funds were the result of assessments paid by the other owners.

The entire situation must be explained to the owners involved, and must be discussed in a regular meeting of the Board, where decisions will be made regarding how to proceed. There must be complete transparency on this matter so the other owners understand what has occurred and what is being done to rectify the situation. If I were one of the other owners and learned two owners were excused from paying @ $1,200 each which should have been billed, I would be exceedingly upset.

I recommend you devise and offer a reasonable payment plan, with no past due interest or late payment charges unless the owners involved fail to meet the terms and conditions of the payment plan.

It is my opinion the Association must attempt to collect the funds which were not properly billed and may exercise any legal means at its disposal to collect the funds after attempting a reasonable approach such as I suggested above.

This was a billing error pure and simple. The fact the error occurred does not excuse responsibility for payment of assessments to which the Association is legally entitled.

I also recommend the Board develop an audit process with the management company to ensure billing errors are discovered far earlier than 18 months later going forward. The audit process should be described in detail to the Association as a whole.

ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
I think that being very nice and requesting only partial payment would be acceptable, if I were an owner. No threats and no statements that the amounts are definitely owed--they are not. The HOA or accounting people screwed up and the owner can get out of payment by putting up a fight.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Chris,

I can’t find any logic or fairness in your answer.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 12/08/2020 6:00 PM
I don't think that the HOA is on strong legal ground here. Even a mediocre litigator could likely come up with a winning argument, but the bills were paid in full: there was offer and acceptance and thus a binding contract.
Nah. I think your response is not even a 'nice try.' The offer and acceptance were made was when the Owner of the HOA home first purchased the house, with the covenants disclosed in advance of the purchase. The Owner bought the HOA home with eyes wide open. The courts expressly view covenants as contractual terms. The covenants require a certain amount of assessment for xyz. The Owner who fails to pay is the one in breach of the contract.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
GeorgeS21 and AugustinD, I have been through litigation about this issue.

The HOA thought that it could threaten and lien me. Oh, they tried. They thought that they could do anything, being a homeowners' association board.

They learned the hard way: don't pick a fight unless you're on really solid ground. The HOA is not on really solid ground here. It may well lose.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 12/08/2020 6:07 PM
Chris,

I can’t find any logic or fairness in your answer.

There are 3 parties here.

The HOA screwed up.

The accountant screwed up.

The owner did not screw up, and the owner has some pretty good defenses, if this came to a legal battle.

Maybe the HOA would win, but it's not certain.

My point is: don't pick a fight unless you're 100% certain to win. I wouldn't give the HOA anywhere near 100%. And I speak as someone who has been through litigation about this.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 12/08/2020 6:10 PM
GeorgeS21 and AugustinD, I have been through litigation about this issue.

The HOA thought that it could threaten and lien me. Oh, they tried. They thought that they could do anything, being a homeowners' association board.

They learned the hard way: don't pick a fight unless you're on really solid ground. The HOA is not on really solid ground here. It may well lose.
I think there is a difference between your situation, described here:

Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 12/08/2020 5:50 PM

The HOA tried all sorts of nonsense threats, etc. to get me to pay a bill that, by the documents that the HOA gave me, was not owed.


and the OP's situation, where there are documents saying these Owners owe the money.

But you do talk tough. It's easy to do when one has never served on a HOA board and does not intend to do so.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Chris,

Given I was involved, I would do something like I outlined.

I would hope you would not follow your path, but I’d be glad to see you in court.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Some chatter about what to do when a bank makes an error in a borrower's favor on a mortgage payment but then turns around and says it wants its (the bank's) money owed:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/real-estate/sns-201411281800--tms--realestmctnig-c20141204-20141204-column.html

Bottom line: The advice indicates a settlement between bank and borrower is possible. The borrower's fighting this is not advised.

Quotation from the article:

"The lender may have made a mistake and released the mortgage on your home and canceled the note, but the lender may have other equitable rights to get repaid."
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Chris

The Bylaws of several of our client properties clearly state the failure to receive a statement does not relieve the property owner from responsibility for payment of a legally approved and agreed to assessment.

We include similar language on every statement we issue to our client association owners.

The language you used in your example seemed to suggest the association was attempting to collect an assessment to which it was not legally entitled. The OPs situation is is an entirely different matter as the association was legally entitled to the funds and did not render an accurate invoice.

Regrettable, but it does not excuse responsibility for payment.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 12/08/2020 6:14 PM
Posted By ChrisE8 on 12/08/2020 6:10 PM
GeorgeS21 and AugustinD, I have been through litigation about this issue.

The HOA thought that it could threaten and lien me. Oh, they tried. They thought that they could do anything, being a homeowners' association board.

They learned the hard way: don't pick a fight unless you're on really solid ground. The HOA is not on really solid ground here. It may well lose.
I think there is a difference between your situation, described here:

Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 12/08/2020 5:50 PM

The HOA tried all sorts of nonsense threats, etc. to get me to pay a bill that, by the documents that the HOA gave me, was not owed.


and the OP's situation, where there are documents saying these Owners owe the money.

But you do talk tough. It's easy to do when one has never served on a HOA board and does not intend to do so.

I have litigated against a HOA board.

I have not been a HOA board member but I have been an officer of a HOA.

The level of sophistication of HOA board can be lacking.

All I’m saying is that if you pick a fight, particularly on behalf of an organization, you’d better be 100% certain to win. A HOA in this situation is on shaky ground, legally, and a sharp owner can beat it.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 12/08/2020 6:56 PM
A HOA in this situation is on shaky ground, legally, and a sharp owner can beat it.
You find me a citation that contradicts the one I posted a little while ago, and you tell me why the Owner is not bound by the contract that is the covenants, and we can talk.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Chris,

NYC, yes?
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 12/08/2020 7:08 PM
Posted By ChrisE8 on 12/08/2020 6:56 PM
A HOA in this situation is on shaky ground, legally, and a sharp owner can beat it.
You find me a citation that contradicts the one I posted a little while ago, and you tell me why the Owner is not bound by the contract that is the covenants, and we can talk.

I can give you thousands of cases that say that when you give money in response to a bill, giving payment results in a binding contract: that the services are performed at the price on the bill. I can also give you thousands of cases that say that terms of an agreement may be modified based on course of conduct (sending a bill and paying the amount on it modify any prior terms that may have been agreed to).

The HOA needs to think long and hard before proceeding.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
This situation was not in NYC (for me or the HOA).
DavidS101 (Virginia)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions. I’m going to go to move forward with extending the olive branch, offer a settlement to resolve this by offering to waive 6 months and see if they will accept by crossing the fence to meet me in the middle. Thank you all for providing some clarity.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Good move. I'm the first to say that AugustinD and GeorgeS21 are very well-respected so if you do choose to be more aggressive about it, based on their feedback, that is also reasonable.

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