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SabrinaF1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I'm in the State of Fl. Can a board member get paid for doing electrical work around the HOA? He is not license bonded of insured but he's an engineer by trade. He repairs our lights and we are paying him with our bidding it out. Also, its not recorded in the minutes. Is this legal?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SabrinaF1 on 12/07/2020 7:55 PM
I'm in the State of Fl. Can a board member get paid for doing electrical work around the HOA? He is not license bonded of insured but he's an engineer by trade. He repairs our lights and we are paying him with our bidding it out. Also, its not recorded in the minutes. Is this legal?
See FS 720.3033 (2) at

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html
SabrinaF1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
thank you but what does not affailted with homeowners association means.?720.3033 Officers and directors.—
(1)(a) Within 90 days after being elected or appointed to the board, each director shall certify in writing to the secretary of the association that he or she has read the association’s declaration of covenants, articles of incorporation, bylaws, and current written rules and policies; that he or she will work to uphold such documents and policies to the best of his or her ability; and that he or she will faithfully discharge his or her fiduciary responsibility to the association’s members. Within 90 days after being elected or appointed to the board, in lieu of such written certification, the newly elected or appointed director may submit a certificate of having satisfactorily completed the educational curriculum administered by a division-approved education provider within 1 year before or 90 days after the date of election or appointment.
(b) The written certification or educational certificate is valid for the uninterrupted tenure of the director on the board. A director who does not timely file the written certification or educational certificate shall be suspended from the board until he or she complies with the requirement. The board may temporarily fill the vacancy during the period of suspension.
(c) The association shall retain each director’s written certification or educational certificate for inspection by the members for 5 years after the director’s election. However, the failure to have the written certification or educational certificate on file does not affect the validity of any board action.
(2) If the association enters into a contract or other transaction with any of its directors or a corporation, firm, association that is not an affiliated homeowners’ association, or other entity in which an association director is also a director or officer or is financially interested, the board must:
(a) Comply with the requirements of s. 617.0832.
(b) Enter the disclosures required by s. 617.0832 into the written minutes of the meeting.
(c) Approve the contract or other transaction by an affirmative vote of two-thirds of the directors present.
(d) At the next regular or special meeting of the members, disclose the existence of the contract or other transaction to the members. Upon motion of any member, the contract or transaction shall be brought up for a vote and may be canceled by a majority vote of the members present. If the members cancel the contract, the association is only liable for the reasonable value of goods and services provided up to the time of cancellation and is not liable for any termination fee, liquidated damages, or other penalty for such cancellation.
(3) An officer, director, or manager may not solicit, offer to accept, or accept any good or service of value for which consideration has not been provided for his or her benefit or for the benefit of a member of his or her immediate family from any person providing or proposing to provide goods or services to the association. If the board finds that an officer or director has violated this subsection, the board shall immediately remove the officer or director from office. The vacancy shall be filled according to law until the end of the director’s term of office. However, an officer, director, or manager may accept food to be consumed at a business meeting with a value of less than $25 per individual or a service or good received in connection with trade fairs or education programs.
(4) A director or officer charged by information or indictment with a felony theft or embezzlement offense involving the association’s funds or property is removed from office. The board shall fill the vacancy according to general law until the end of the period of the suspension or the end of the director’s term of office, whichever occurs first. However, if the charges are resolved without a finding of guilt or without acceptance of a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, the director or officer shall be reinstated for any remainder of his or her term of office. A member who has such criminal charges pending may not be appointed or elected to a position as a director or officer.
(5) The association shall maintain insurance or a fidelity bond for all persons who control or disburse funds of the association. The insurance policy or fidelity bond must cover the maximum funds that will be in the custody of the association or its management agent at any one time. As used in this subsection, the term “persons who control or disburse funds of the association” includes, but is not limited to, persons authorized to sign checks on behalf of the association, and the president, secretary, and treasurer of the association. The association shall bear the cost of any insurance or bond. If annually approved by a majority of the voting interests present at a properly called meeting of the association, an association may waive the requirement of obtaining an insurance policy or fidelity bond for all persons who control or disburse funds of the association.
History.—s. 3, ch. 2013-218.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SabrinaF1 on 12/07/2020 8:47 PM
thank you but what does not affailted with homeowners association means.
Re-read the following:
Quote:

(2) If the association enters into a contract or other transaction with any of its directors or a corporation, firm, association that is not an affiliated homeowners’ association, or other entity in which an association director is also a director or officer or is financially interested, the board must:
For your purposes, just read this as follows:

If the association enters into a contract or other transaction with any of its directors... the board must:

If you still do not understand FS 720.3033 (2), then you should hire an attorney.
SabrinaF1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Thank you. SO since the treasurer and the board member are best friends and he has paid the board member over 9K without taking this for a vote or recording this in the minutes he should be in trouble.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Board approves budget, and this could allow some normal payments, like contractual landscaping to be paid ... but, electrical work is usually project specific, so some sort of approval would be expected.

No unlicensed electrical work should ever be allowed.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SabrinaF1 on 12/07/2020 9:11 PM
Thank you. SO since the treasurer and the board member are best friends
Please leave out anything, especially gossip like the above, that is not related to lawbreaking.
Quote:
and he has paid the board member over 9K without taking this for a vote or recording this in the minutes he should be in trouble.
Recite which sections of 720.3033 (2) were broken, please. You will need to read 617.0832 as well, at http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0600-0699/0617/0617.html, and then identify which sections of 617.0832 were broken.

If you are unable to do this, then hire an attorney.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Sabrina,

Do you know for a fact he is actually getting paid for work vs. simply being reimbursed for parts/supplies?

When I was on the board, I often did small jobs around the community.
This was done with board approval and I was only reimbursed for parts/supplies (which receipts were provided).
Could this be the case with your Association?

If he is getting paid for this work, it would be allowed (as they are not part of his duties as a Director).
It wouldn't be prudent for the board to do this without obtaining bids or requiring licenses. However, many boards might do this as a way to keep initial costs down.

There should be something in the minutes that a contract was awarded to xyz to repair abc.
OR Joe/Sally will take care of abc

If the individual receives more then $600 for this work (if it's not a simple reimbursement of expenses), the Association should issue a 1099-misc. at the end of the year. If it is under $600 a 1099-misc is not required.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
So is someone going to go to jail? Nope. No one should ever hire an unlicensed/uninsured contractor to do work as a general rule. Board members are VOLUNTEER. However, if one owned an Electrical company their company can be paid. This money will need to be reported to the IRS on that person whom was paid. The HOA it will show up as if paying anyone else doing the work.

Now where the issue truly lies is if any of the work they did causes damages or fire. That is where the HOA will end up paying. Any of it is faulty causing a fire or damage, insurance may not pick up the repairs if done by an unlicensed contractor.

BTW: I am technically an Electrician but would never volunteer to do any HOA work. I may know other Electricians to hire or what to look for. So I would probably inspect and monitor the work for the HOA but never do it myself as a Board member or general member.

Former HOA President
SabrinaF1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Thanks everyone for the comments. Yes I know its not for reimbursement of parts because we have no receipts and the checks are even number amount like 2,000, 1600 or 3,000. If reimbursement I think it wouldn't be even number without taxes added. Also, its not recorded in any minutes nor on our profit or loss statement.
SabrinaF1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
and we didnt bid it ot. Only gave the job to him.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Unlicensed.

Law suit that drives HOA into receivership or dissolution when someone is electrocuted?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Have you asked ANY of these questions to your board? If not, why not? If so, what was the response?

There SHOULD be something about the board approving the work and how much it will cost in the minutes because minutes are supposed to reflect the official activities of the Association. Getting bids for expensive work may not be written in your documents, but it really shouldn't be necessary because it's just common sense. (Then again, there are some HOA boards who don't seem to have any!)

As you've probably guessed and others have said, it's a horrible idea to have unlicensed people doing electrical work and even worse if the person's not bonded or insured. Someone needs to point that out to the board - and it appears that will have to be YOU. So gather your courage and go to the next board meeting. Talk to some of your neighbors and if they're as concerned as you, bring them along - the board may ignore one person, but it's harder when several people are there to witness the questions and answers.

From there, you know what may have to happen next - rally together more people and either vote these people out of the office in the next board election or call a special homeowners meeting (check your documents to see how it's done) and push for a recall of whoever's responsible for this. You will, of course, need replacement if you're successful - and yes, one of the new board members stepping up may have to be you. So be careful what you wish for - you may get it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Sabrina

Can he get paid? Of course he can.

Should the BOD be using him? Not unless he is licensed, bonded, and insured. If not, the BOD is placing the association in jeopardy if something happens to him, like electrucion.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are you on the board, Sabrina? (Sorry if i missed it)
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am with JohnC, the HOA still has to pay him. You can't get the money back if that is what your looking for. He is to be compensated if did the work. So don't think this is a reimbursable expense. It isn't.

It is a learning point for the HOA to set up a proper system for hiring contractors. We have a 3 bid process. Plus they have to be licensed and insured. It is okay to hire someone from the HOA if you want, they just have to bid and meet the criteria.

So I would approach the board with this solution of how to hire contractors and importance of insured/bonded. It is important this is done. It's too late for what has happened.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 12/08/2020 6:20 AM
Unlicensed.

Law suit that drives HOA into receivership or dissolution when someone is electrocuted?

Agree 1000%

The fact that they're paying this guy is the least of the problems - and it would be a problem even if he wasn't being paid at all:

* No insurance (his or the HOA's)
* Unlicensed work
* Almost certainly no warranty or guarantee of any sort

Yikes...

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