Public Utility company damaged HOA maintained roads

Started by JohnT38 • 17 replies • 485 views

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JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

I figured I would post this question before I begin exploring this issue. Recently the public utility company replaced water lines underneath our roads which are private and maintained by the HOA. During this process the concrete curbing that runs along the roads was smashed randomly throughout the community. I assume this was a result of the heavy equipment that was used.

Several board members believe the utility company should pay to fix the damage. Obviously, this would be great if they would but I suspect that they will play hardball and deny responsibility. What I don't want to do is rack up legal fees trying to fight a losing battle. I do plan on calling them.

My question is has anyone else been in a similar position and do you have any advice for me before I go down this path?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Call earlier rather then later.

The longer you wait, the better the likely hood the utility will simply think you are pulling a fast one.

Call and make a complaint.

Have pictures ready to send (distance and close up) to help show the damage.

Worst thing would be that they say no.

If they say no, contact the city/county to see if they can be of assistance.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Okay so your all making this off ASSUMPTIONS and FEAR BEFORE you ask the utility? You can't make any decisions without the FACTS. It sounds like all assumptions and conjecture. Simply call up the utility department and ask them their policy on such repairs. Don't go into "We are going to talk to our lawyers mode". Just simply find out the policy.

It's hard to tell as typically water lines are the responsibility of the utility road to meter. Meter to house is the owner's responsibility. Each situation is different but that is the typical set up. The roads being privately owned by the HOA is the major concern and issue here. Does a private road null and voids a public utility from access or responsibility? That is what needs to be questioned here.

I don't know off hand if they need to fix the damage. They could if made aware and pictures taken. Need to prove it. So document what you have. Know what the right questions are to ask before you start asking them.

Former HOA President

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/06/2020 6:52 AM
Okay so your all making this off ASSUMPTIONS and FEAR BEFORE you ask the utility? You can't make any decisions without the FACTS. It sounds like all assumptions and conjecture. Simply call up the utility department and ask them their policy on such repairs. Don't go into "We are going to talk to our lawyers mode". Just simply find out the policy.

It's hard to tell as typically water lines are the responsibility of the utility road to meter. Meter to house is the owner's responsibility. Each situation is different but that is the typical set up. The roads being privately owned by the HOA is the major concern and issue here. Does a private road null and voids a public utility from access or responsibility? That is what needs to be questioned here.

I don't know off hand if they need to fix the damage. They could if made aware and pictures taken. Need to prove it. So document what you have. Know what the right questions are to ask before you start asking them.

For most of your post I honestly don't know what you are babbling about. I'm not making an assumptions and fear has nothing to do with this. I believe in doing my homework first when I can. I want to speak intelligently before I talk with someone. For all I know the utility company is not responsible for repairs unless their actions were grossly negligent. I can see them stating that some damage is typical and expected and when you use their services you agree to the risk. (I have no idea if this is true or not.) The more info I have now the better. We actually do have before and after pictures that someone took once the problem first occurred. Obviously I know better than to bring up the subject of legal action from the get go.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Thank you for proving my point. Not maaking decisions or asking questions based on facts or reality. Your whole post and response was stated in assumptiins. You think notmwhat you know to be true.

Former HOA President

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/06/2020 7:49 AM
Thank you for proving my point. Not maaking decisions or asking questions based on facts or reality. Your whole post and response was stated in assumptiins. You think notmwhat you know to be true.

I sincerely mean this when I say you make some of the most bizarre statements of any poster on this site. One of the biggest advantages of this site is that you can come here and benefit from the 'lessons learned' of others. Having this knowledge is invaluable when you are about to take on a task, solve a problem or manage a project. If someone has faced the same issue that I am posting about then I want to learn from them. Unlike you, I try and stay on topic and learn from others.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I will say that when we had a water leak, the water company came out, repaired the leak and did a quick fix of the road.
We called and they explained that they do a quick fix so the area is usable and will send out a crew later to do a permanent fix, which they did.

However, we did not have any curb/sidewalk damage.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Really becuase your asking this type of question to a free forum instead of the direct source? You wanted opinions. I work with facts.

Former HOA President

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 12/06/2020 8:04 AM
I will say that when we had a water leak, the water company came out, repaired the leak and did a quick fix of the road.
We called and they explained that they do a quick fix so the area is usable and will send out a crew later to do a permanent fix, which they did.

However, we did not have any curb/sidewalk damage.

Thanks Tim. I will be calling tomorrow and speaking with the assigned project manager from the utility company. As I get information I'll post what I was told. I figured this has to be a common issue with HOA's with private roads and was hoping to luck out and get some feedback from anyone that has gone through this. From what I can tell so far the damage occurred when they replaced water meters in front of homes. These meters are 2-3 feet behind the curbing and to be fair I can see how this damage would occur when you are using a heavy front end loader to dig them up. My gut was that utility companies may be protected from damage claims unless it was negligent or unreasonable.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Well think everyone's advice would have been "Call the utility BEFORE anything else". Plus how do you know that the utilities does or does not know the damage is there? Haven't even given them a chance to rectify the situation which is required. What your HOA going to go talk to a lawyer about? You don't have anything to discuss until you all contact the utilities.

We had a cable company install cable but left the cable unburied. It ran down the curb of the roads. I drove over it daily. Called the cable company (I wasn't involved with the installation). Found out that they do not bury the cables. They hire another contractor to do it. So we had to wait till their contractor came out to do the work. It took months.

So I am not one to run for opinions and a lawyer when I don't know the process. What is the process/procedure the utility has in place? I can assume a million things and wish for them as well. No one can give advice based on that. Need to know what the utility says and what they are responsible for first before anyone can give good advice.

Former HOA President

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Our HOA has been after the biggest cable tv company to pour a new concrete slab that they busted up to install a new tap and vault right besides an existing one. Our concerns is will someone trip, fall and sue. Currently there is a poorly laid asphalt patch that is uneven. It is a long process, but our PM has been on them like a pint sized yappy dog nipping their heels. Just be persistent.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 12/06/2020 8:16 AM
I figured this has to be a common issue with HOA's with private roads and was hoping to luck out and get some feedback from anyone that has gone through this. From what I can tell so far the damage occurred when they replaced water meters in front of homes. These meters are 2-3 feet behind the curbing and to be fair I can see how this damage would occur when you are using a heavy front end loader to dig them up. My gut was that utility companies may be protected from damage claims unless it was negligent or unreasonable.

-- Damage to common areas (and/or other private property) by utility companies having an easement is common.

-- Before calling the utility company, I would check the plats for the details of what any easement agreement says.

-- Here's what looks like typical guidance on the subject: https://altitude.law/resources/newsletter/utility-easements-over-common-areas-and-resulting-damage/

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Excellent AugustinD. This is exactly the type of info I was looking for. Thank you!

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

My current community has private roads with concrete curbs. Many times new construction on lots breaks the curbs - the contractor is required to repair them - and, if the lot had sidewalks, to repair any damage to the sidewalks, as well - part of the approval process.

Our roads and curbs are specifically listed as components of our reserve study.

Perhaps someone at some recent point took photos of the curb areas in question - I suspect a careful examination of the broken curbs would show recent damage.

Most telling would be in these areas are the only areas broken - and, they were related to the work being done?

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858

Posted:

I assume that either the Board or the Management company was aware of the utility work that was going to be done. Where was the discussion before the work started about what happens if the utility company damages some of the HOA curbing that are private.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelS56 on 12/06/2020 4:12 PM
I assume that either the Board or the Management company was aware of the utility work that was going to be done.

This isn't always the case.

In the situation I posted earlier, the water leak was called in by the residents.

The Board found out after the repairs were made (when the residents were complaining of the temporary patch).

Even after we contacted the utility, they never provided a date. Just showed up one morning, prepped the road for repair (cut a 12" deep square out of the road and removed debris), left and a different crew showed up later that day to fill it in properly. The board found out about that when the residents were complaining about the hole in the road without any notice provided.

Don't believe your board or the MC knows everything that is happening.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelS56 on 12/06/2020 4:12 PM
I assume that either the Board or the Management company was aware of the utility work that was going to be done. Where was the discussion before the work started about what happens if the utility company damages some of the HOA curbing that are private.

That's not always the case, utility companies have an easement. They can come on property unannounced and jackhammer away. Yes that bothers me, if they were replacing existing equipment. In our case they are adding equipment besides an existing vault, then I contend the unity should give notification to the BOD.

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