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MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
I just received notice that our HOA is going to use dues collected to maintain the common areas to repair sidewalks on owner's private property. This is in Louisiana and it seems to me this is a misuse of HOA funds?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/04/2020 1:08 PM
I just received notice that our HOA is going to use dues collected to maintain the common areas to repair sidewalks on owner's private property. This is in Louisiana and it seems to me this is a misuse of HOA funds?

Is the sidewalk common usage as in anyone in the association can/does use it?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mike,

It may or may not be the HOA's responsibility to repair.

What do your covenants say about sidewalks?

Tim
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Tim & John ask good questions, Mike.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
They say "No part of the net earnings of the Corporation shall inure to the benefit of any member or other person."

The sidewalks are on private property of each lot owner.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/05/2020 12:09 PM
They say "No part of the net earnings of the Corporation shall inure to the benefit of any member or other person."

The sidewalks are on private property of each lot owner.

There has to be a lot more information that you need to share for an intelligent answer. If all residents use these sidewalks then they are for the benefit of the entire community. Somewhere in your governing docs it will provide specific information on what is and what isn't covered by the HOA.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/05/2020 12:09 PM
They say "No part of the net earnings of the Corporation shall inure to the benefit of any member or other person."

The sidewalks are on private property of each lot owner.

But, does it say that the Association shall maintain sidewalks?

Has the Association repaired sidewalks in the past?

Have you asked the board by what authority are they repairing the sidewalks (ask nicely if you haven't)?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/05/2020 12:09 PM
They say "No part of the net earnings of the Corporation shall inure to the benefit of any member or other person."

The sidewalks are on private property of each lot owner.

Mike

I asked earlier and will do again. Do all owners have access and use these sidewalks?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 12/05/2020 12:25 PM
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/05/2020 12:09 PM
They say "No part of the net earnings of the Corporation shall inure to the benefit of any member or other person."

The sidewalks are on private property of each lot owner.


There has to be a lot more information that you need to share for an intelligent answer.

A lot more.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We need more details. Why does the sidewalk need repaired? Is it shared sidewalk that goes across the driveway? Sometimes in HOA's the money does have to benefit one owner. It may not sound "fair/equal" but sometimes it just is.

Let's say that this owner's sidewalk was damaged because of Tree roots. The HOA removed the tree but the sidewalk was damaged in the process. Does the HOA not have a responsibility to repair their sidewalk?

Your logic doesn't necessarily apply because there are many individual needs/responsibility of the HOA. A HOA works much like a poker game. You all put money into the till and the biggest hand wins.

Former HOA President
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Sidewalks may be situated on private property but it's clearly under an easement (real or implied) and the sidewalk is for the benefit and safety of the entire community. I would argue that if the HOA is consistent with its sidewalk repair policies, across properties, and the HOA board controls the timing and approval off all sidewalk repairs, then HOA funds can support it.

If, in the rare case, this sidewalk was installed as a private investment and community members do not have access and are discouraged from trespassing by using the sidewalk, then HOA funds should not be expended on maintenance.

Summary: Yes, the sidewalk is on private property but as a common element. The property underneath the sidewalk is private. The cement on top of the private property is the repair responsibility of HOA as a common amenity.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I would want to see what the Declaration/Covenants and maybe plats say about whether the sidewalks are common area before agreeing with KellyM3's IMO otherwise well-written post.

Let me toss in that I have seen HOAs where the city had responsibility for the sidewalks.

It just depends.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/05/2020 12:09 PM
They say "No part of the net earnings of the Corporation shall inure to the benefit of any member or other person."

The sidewalks are on private property of each lot owner.

That statement ("No part of the net earnings...") is irrelevant for this. That statement just means that the HOA can't pay out "profits" to any owner or anyone else, such as by paying a dividend; it's a nonprofit.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mike,

As an example: In my covenants, under the section that says purpose for assessments, it states the following:

To maintain, care for and preserve the Common areas in the subdivision including areas located between or adjoining the fences and alleys in said Subdivision and all sidewalks in said Subdivision . . .

Does your covenants have similar language?
JamesJ16
Posts: 40
Posted:
An HOA Board is to make decisions "in the interest of the Corporation" on how to maintain the common areas. Sidewalks are always a strange issue as to who owns and maintains them be it city, owner, or HOA.

Who owns the sidewalk in question, that is who actually per most city laws who has the responsibility to fix them, in a lot of cases land plots start measuring from the rear of sidewalks, sidewalks are in many cases enforced by police and HOAS if you block them, but this is not your complaint. But because of the aforementioned and utility easements etc. One could make a case that in fact they may not be the owner of a particular sidewalk.

I believe your complaint is simply you do not agree the HOA starting expensive practice of maintaining everyone's sidewalks, and your legal argument is that the HOA is misusing funds? You can certainly make any complaint or argument you want, it is not a terrible argument in my opinion if any apply:

1. The HOA has no history of doing this as someone stated, and the expense and practice could create a financial hardship on the HOA now or in the future.
2. The city states the sidewalks are owned and to be maintained by the property owner.
3. The developer made the sidewalks and donated them to to the owners and not public use in the CCR's.
4. The sidewalks in question are not considered a common area to the HOA, for which they would have a responsibility to maintain common areas.

O.K. in my opinion since sidewalks are public use, common areas owned by the home owner that every party that everyone has a responsibility to maintain them, but they can be very expensive, so I understand your concern. This is why many city's at the beginning of every year will sometimes have sidewalk grant money that you or the HOA can apply for, but the money is limited and runs out very quickly. Certainly though free sidewalk money is something everyone should consider.

Also in my opinion if an HOA has sidewalks in disrepair everywhere the value of the property is effected and the BOD has decided to spend the money to fix the sidewalks for the Homeowners and their children to have better enjoyment of the neighborhood, which helps with aesthetics of the neighborhood and property values. Thus again in my opinion the BOD has acted in the interest of the Corporation and the members, so probably not a complaint that a jury would side with you on, but other member's might side with you if the sidewalks are bad and the expense will burden the HOA. There should be some cost sharing here I believe this is how most city grants work and the HOA could take the same approach to better conserve funds and fix more sidewalks.

(In the above I am referring only to sidewalks in the front of an owner's property, placed their by the developer not the HOA.)

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
So, the relatively new HOA community (659 single family houses) I live in currently owns from the middle of the private roads 30' in each direction - I was a bit surprised by this.

We have sidewalks which are mandated when building on lots - some lots had them as the developer wanted the neighborhood to look nice.

The roads are 25' wide - so, from the center: 12.5' to the edge of the curb, 1.5' concrete curb, 4' to the edge of the sidewalk, 5' sidewalk, 7' into the yard ... it is an easement, as well, BUT, tax assessor office shows the HOA clearly owns the 60' wide area.

No one has addressed yet - hasn't come up - when a sidewalk cracks badly enough from normal wear and tear (time), who pays for the repair?

These are very specific situations - some have just never been addressed.
JamesJ16
Posts: 40
Posted:
GeorgeS21,

You make me laugh, as you are asking about a hypothetical crack of a sidewalk in the future, right?

In your hypothetical question I can only say the owners pay!

Either way, the owners of the lots, are also the members of the HOA who own and fund the HOA corporation. So either way the owners are paying to fix future sidewalk damages. In your case I do not think it matters, but you have plenty of time to write this fear of yours into the CCR'S and By-laws. As to the owner's wishes.

With that many sidewalks you may want to convince the owners, to put sidewalk repairs on each individual lot owner, and if you can donate those roads drainage etc. to the City if possible. Just my opinion, but I live in an older neighborhood almost as large, and the sidewalks are a major issue now, and they are the lot owners responsibility and rarely will a lot owner fix their sidewalk. Something to keep in mind.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Last neighborhood, just down the street, the lots were owned to the gutters - about 80% public roads and 20% private - and, it was clearly stated in the CCRs and Architectural Guidelines that owners had to pour sidewalks at time of construction, and maintain them.

We’re fine in current community with private roads, etc ... well funded.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Streets and curbs are owned by the HOA. City has no jurisdiction .
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/05/2020 3:03 PM
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/05/2020 12:09 PM
They say "No part of the net earnings of the Corporation shall inure to the benefit of any member or other person."

The sidewalks are on private property of each lot owner.


No, it does not say anything and the Board admits it is illegal.

Mike

I asked earlier and will do again. Do all owners have access and use these sidewalks?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mike,

If the board admits that repairing the sidewalk with HOA funds is improper, what did they say when you asked why they are doing it?

Have you reviewed copies of past minutes for board meetings to see why this is happening?
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/07/2020 2:36 PM
Mike,

If the board admits that repairing the sidewalk with HOA funds is improper, what did they say when you asked why they are doing it?

Have you reviewed copies of past minutes for board meetings to see why this is happening?

Minutes are not provided to owners.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Do LA statutes say they must be?
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 12/07/2020 4:03 PM
Do LA statutes say they must be?

No.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/07/2020 3:24 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 12/07/2020 2:36 PM
Mike,

If the board admits that repairing the sidewalk with HOA funds is improper, what did they say when you asked why they are doing it?

Have you reviewed copies of past minutes for board meetings to see why this is happening?


Minutes are not provided to owners.

However, you can review them if you request.

Read your governing documents and applicable statutes.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Tim,

Probably crossed in ether, but Mike says LA statute does not require minutes be made available.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 12/07/2020 7:21 PM
Tim,

Probably crossed in ether, but Mike says LA statute does not require minutes be made available.

Typically, Associations are incorporated.
If incorporated, they must comply with Corporate statutes as well as property statutes.

The right of inspection is typically identified within corporate statutes:

LA Rev Stat § 12:1-1602

§1-1602. Inspection of records by shareholders

A. A shareholder of a corporation is entitled to inspect and copy, during regular business hours at the corporation's principal office, any of the records of the corporation described in R.S. 12:1-1601(E) if the shareholder gives the corporation a signed written notice of the shareholder's demand at least five business days before the date on which the shareholder wishes to inspect and copy.

LA Rev Stat § 12:1-1601

PART 16. RECORDS AND REPORTS

SUBPART A. RECORDS

§1-1601. Corporate records

A. A corporation shall keep as permanent records minutes of all meetings of its shareholders and board of directors, a record of all actions taken by the shareholders or board of directors without a meeting, and a record of all actions taken by a committee of the board of directors in place of the board of directors on behalf of the corporation.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I get the impression that Mike is new to HOA living and isn't fully aware of all the rules/regulations that govern HOAs.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Tim,

Yep, that is my assessment, as well ... the reason you see me asking the same question each time - attempting to motivate HOA/COA/POA members to do their own initial work - some do, some are just looking for easy answers here, and some are looking for answers that agree with their intents :-)
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/08/2020 4:32 AM

Typically, Associations are incorporated.
If incorporated, they must comply with Corporate statutes as well as property statutes.

The right of inspection is typically identified within corporate statutes:

LA Rev Stat § 12:1-1602

§1-1602. Inspection of records by shareholders

A. A shareholder of a corporation is entitled to inspect and copy, during regular business hours at the corporation's principal office, any of the records of the corporation described in R.S. 12:1-1601(E) if the shareholder gives the corporation a signed written notice of the shareholder's demand at least five business days before the date on which the shareholder wishes to inspect and copy.

LA Rev Stat § 12:1-1601

PART 16. RECORDS AND REPORTS

SUBPART A. RECORDS

§1-1601. Corporate records

A. A corporation shall keep as permanent records minutes of all meetings of its shareholders and board of directors, a record of all actions taken by the shareholders or board of directors without a meeting, and a record of all actions taken by a committee of the board of directors in place of the board of directors on behalf of the corporation.
I saw this, too. But to me, the problem is that the statute limits what the shareholder (or HOA member) may view to only what is in 12:1-1601 (E). Part (E) does not list the Minutes of Board meetings.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You said the streets and curbs are owned by the HOA, but still haven't said whether the sidewalks are also HOA responsibility - I suspect part of all of them could be, and that would explain why the HOA is using assessments to pay to repair them. Nor have you said if this is a repair to the sidewalk at one house or all of them, and that could make a difference.

Go back to your documents and perhaps the last few months of board meeting minutes. Your documents may state you have a right to take a look at the minutes, so be sure to cite that section in your request. While you're at it, ask for a copy of your association budget and look for a line item for street/sidewalk maintenance - that could be where the money's coming from.

Until you answer some of the questions others have bought up, it's unlikely you'll get a thoughtful answer, let alone suggestions on how to address this if the board is using money inappropriately. You may not like what you hear, but that doesn't mean the answer's wrong.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 12/08/2020 9:14 AM
You said the streets and curbs are owned by the HOA, but still haven't said whether the sidewalks are also HOA responsibility - I suspect part of all of them could be, and that would explain why the HOA is using assessments to pay to repair them. Nor have you said if this is a repair to the sidewalk at one house or all of them, and that could make a difference.

Go back to your documents and perhaps the last few months of board meeting minutes. Your documents may state you have a right to take a look at the minutes, so be sure to cite that section in your request. While you're at it, ask for a copy of your association budget and look for a line item for street/sidewalk maintenance - that could be where the money's coming from.

Until you answer some of the questions others have bought up, it's unlikely you'll get a thoughtful answer, let alone suggestions on how to address this if the board is using money inappropriately. You may not like what you hear, but that doesn't mean the answer's wrong.

I've said multiple times the sidewalks are private property, owned by the lot owner. The HOA Charter and Bylaws address maintenance of Common areas. The sidewalks while used freely by everyone are owned by the lot owners.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/08/2020 2:27 PM
Posted By SheliaH on 12/08/2020 9:14 AM
You said the streets and curbs are owned by the HOA, but still haven't said whether the sidewalks are also HOA responsibility - I suspect part of all of them could be, and that would explain why the HOA is using assessments to pay to repair them. Nor have you said if this is a repair to the sidewalk at one house or all of them, and that could make a difference.

Go back to your documents and perhaps the last few months of board meeting minutes. Your documents may state you have a right to take a look at the minutes, so be sure to cite that section in your request. While you're at it, ask for a copy of your association budget and look for a line item for street/sidewalk maintenance - that could be where the money's coming from.

Until you answer some of the questions others have bought up, it's unlikely you'll get a thoughtful answer, let alone suggestions on how to address this if the board is using money inappropriately. You may not like what you hear, but that doesn't mean the answer's wrong.


I've said multiple times the sidewalks are private property, owned by the lot owner. The HOA Charter and Bylaws address maintenance of Common areas. The sidewalks while used freely by everyone are owned by the lot owners.

The Board minuets are not published, as I've said before. I know where the money is coming from, it is coming from the strategic reserve maintained for common area maintenance.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/08/2020 2:27 PM
Posted By SheliaH on 12/08/2020 9:14 AM
You said the streets and curbs are owned by the HOA, but still haven't said whether the sidewalks are also HOA responsibility - I suspect part of all of them could be, and that would explain why the HOA is using assessments to pay to repair them. Nor have you said if this is a repair to the sidewalk at one house or all of them, and that could make a difference.

Go back to your documents and perhaps the last few months of board meeting minutes. Your documents may state you have a right to take a look at the minutes, so be sure to cite that section in your request. While you're at it, ask for a copy of your association budget and look for a line item for street/sidewalk maintenance - that could be where the money's coming from.

Until you answer some of the questions others have bought up, it's unlikely you'll get a thoughtful answer, let alone suggestions on how to address this if the board is using money inappropriately. You may not like what you hear, but that doesn't mean the answer's wrong.


I've said multiple times the sidewalks are private property, owned by the lot owner. The HOA Charter and Bylaws address maintenance of Common areas. The sidewalks while used freely by everyone are owned by the lot owners.

The Board minuets are not published, as I've said before. I know where the money is coming from, it is coming from the strategic reserve maintained for common area maintenance.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Still not clear on the location of the sidewalk or how they got damaged. Can see how it is HOA's responsibility. A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. So if this is part of common area/property then HOA can pay for it. Don't see the problem.

Former HOA President
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/08/2020 4:33 AM
I get the impression that Mike is new to HOA living and isn't fully aware of all the rules/regulations that govern HOAs.

Your assumptions couldn't be more wrong. I first moved in to a development with an HOA in 1998 and have lived in this one since 2007. I am also an officer on another HOA board where we have a second home in a neighboring city. The difference is this HOA has a 6 page booklet which contains both the Charter and the Bylaws. The HOA where I am on the Board in a different city has Bylaws that are 20 legal pages single spaced and the original charter is hundreds of pages.

Please don't treat me as an idiot.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/08/2020 4:33 AM
I get the impression that Mike is new to HOA living and isn't fully aware of all the rules/regulations that govern HOAs.

Your assumptions couldn't be more wrong. I first moved in to a development with an HOA in 1998 and have lived in this one since 2007. I am also an officer on another HOA board where we have a second home in a neighboring city. The difference is this HOA has a 6 page booklet which contains both the Charter and the Bylaws. The HOA where I am on the Board in a different city has Bylaws that are 20 legal pages single spaced and the original charter is hundreds of pages.

Please don't treat me as an idiot.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/07/2020 4:57 PM
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/07/2020 3:24 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 12/07/2020 2:36 PM
Mike,

If the board admits that repairing the sidewalk with HOA funds is improper, what did they say when you asked why they are doing it?

Have you reviewed copies of past minutes for board meetings to see why this is happening?


Minutes are not provided to owners.


However, you can review them if you request.

Read your governing documents and applicable statutes.

This is, thank God, not Virginia. It is Louisiana and our legal system is somewhat unique being based not on English Common Law but the Napoleonic Code.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/08/2020 2:37 PM
This is, thank God, not Virginia. It is Louisiana and our legal system is somewhat unique being based not on English Common Law but the Napoleonic Code.
Ouch. (I am sitting here weighing the relative pros and cons of each, from the undesirability of rubbing elbows with Washington DC programmed folk to the undesirability of sweating instantly upon leaving one's home for three seasons of the year in Louisiana.)

Both states do still have HOA/Condo and nonprofit corporation statutes
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mike,

I'm sorry you believe I was treating you as an idiot.
I was not.
I based my impression from what was being posted.

Since you have lived within your association for more then a decade and have/are serving on boards of other Associations, you know the various reasons why associations may or may not repair sidewalks.

Most of the responses to your initial question has had the expectation that the sidewalks would be considered a common element.
You have not provided a clear enough response to indicate one way or the other if this expectation is correct.

It is unclear if you have contacted the board with your concerns and, if you have, have not shared their response on why the board approved the work.

Your posting is the first time I have come across where statutes for HOAs do not make board meeting minutes available to members. Something I've learned today. Interesting that LA COAs must allow this but it's silent on HOAs. You might want to contact your State legislator about fixing this.

Again, I was not treating you as an idiot.
I simply thought you didn't have the experience with HOAs others on this site have had.
I meant nothing mean by that comment. This site is for everyone to learn (as I have about LA HOA access to board minutes).

Did you ask your Board why they are repairing the sidewalk?
Can you please share their sanitized (no mention of names/association) answer so everyone can learn?

Tim

MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/08/2020 3:15 PM
Mike,

I'm sorry you believe I was treating you as an idiot.
I was not.
I based my impression from what was being posted.

Since you have lived within your association for more then a decade and have/are serving on boards of other Associations, you know the various reasons why associations may or may not repair sidewalks.

Most of the responses to your initial question has had the expectation that the sidewalks would be considered a common element.
You have not provided a clear enough response to indicate one way or the other if this expectation is correct.

It is unclear if you have contacted the board with your concerns and, if you have, have not shared their response on why the board approved the work.

Your posting is the first time I have come across where statutes for HOAs do not make board meeting minutes available to members. Something I've learned today. Interesting that LA COAs must allow this but it's silent on HOAs. You might want to contact your State legislator about fixing this.

Again, I was not treating you as an idiot.
I simply thought you didn't have the experience with HOAs others on this site have had.
I meant nothing mean by that comment. This site is for everyone to learn (as I have about LA HOA access to board minutes).

Did you ask your Board why they are repairing the sidewalk?
Can you please share their sanitized (no mention of names/association) answer so everyone can learn?

Tim

I had an hour long visit with the President Sunday. He agrees the sidewalks are private property. He has personally paid to have his repaired, as have I. He said the current Board just thought it made sense that sidewalks should be Common Areas, so irregardless of the legality they were changing the policy. And he admitted they changed the policy without notification to the Association and aren't going to address it. When I suggested the proper action was to bill owners while a larger project is underway, he said it was "too much trouble, and some might not want to pay."


MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
I asked a simple question about the possible misuse of HOA funds.

The result was multiple posts telling me things I already know from people who have no first hand knowledge of Louisiana statutes, and accusing me of gross ignorance.

Thanks for nothing.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Your welcome for the nothing. It was exactly what you gave us as well...

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/04/2020 1:08 PM
I just received notice that our HOA is going to use dues collected to maintain the common areas to repair sidewalks on owner's private property. This is in Louisiana and it seems to me this is a misuse of HOA funds?
New people posting here with questions like yours are often not aware that there are common areas and limited common areas and often, more than what is presented in a first post.

Some folks are not aware that, when a HOA's actions (or lack of action) damage a member's private property, the HOA is often obliged to pay for the repair.

I believe there is not a competent attorney who would respond to your question without a lot more questions, including asking you to provide her or him with the HOA's governing documents. The bill would be north of $2000. This is before the attorney even gives you her or his assessment.

I do not want to steer you wrong. I do not want to assume, because you know how that makes an a-- et cetera out of you and me. I expect others feel similarly.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/08/2020 3:52 PM

I had an hour long visit with the President Sunday. He agrees the sidewalks are private property. He has personally paid to have his repaired, as have I. He said the current Board just thought it made sense that sidewalks should be Common Areas, so irregardless of the legality they were changing the policy. And he admitted they changed the policy without notification to the Association and aren't going to address it. When I suggested the proper action was to bill owners while a larger project is underway, he said it was "too much trouble, and some might not want to pay."

Mike, thanks for the info.

My suggestion, dig up your sidewalk repair receipt and send it to the board. Specify you are only asking to be reimbursed for repairs that the board is doing for others.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/08/2020 3:52 PM

I had an hour long visit with the President Sunday. He agrees the sidewalks are private property. He has personally paid to have his repaired, as have I. He said the current Board just thought it made sense that sidewalks should be Common Areas, so irregardless of the legality they were changing the policy. And he admitted they changed the policy without notification to the Association and aren't going to address it.
You do realize that what the Board is unlawfully trying to attempt, all by itself, is an amendment to the covenants (where they define common area and private property et cetera), don't you? What they have done is 100% illegal. What the board should have done is seek a vote of the HOA members to amend the covenants, as described in more detail in the HOA's Declaration. Also, the HOA, by performing these repairs, has assumed liability that none of the members agreed to for some years go come. Does the insurer know this?
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 12/09/2020 7:42 AM
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/08/2020 3:52 PM

I had an hour long visit with the President Sunday. He agrees the sidewalks are private property. He has personally paid to have his repaired, as have I. He said the current Board just thought it made sense that sidewalks should be Common Areas, so irregardless of the legality they were changing the policy. And he admitted they changed the policy without notification to the Association and aren't going to address it.
You do realize that what the Board is unlawfully trying to attempt, all by itself, is an amendment to the covenants (where they define common area and private property et cetera), don't you? What they have done is 100% illegal. What the board should have done is seek a vote of the HOA members to amend the covenants, as described in more detail in the HOA's Declaration. Also, the HOA, by performing these repairs, has assumed liability that none of the members agreed to for some years go come. Does the insurer know this?

Well that certainly changes things quite a bit!
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 12/08/2020 2:29 PM
I know where the money is coming from, it is coming from the strategic reserve maintained for common area maintenance.
For fun, I want to know if the last few reserve studies did not include the sidewalks. Because if so, then I think fiscal irresponsibility and more now kick in.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Based on Mikes recent posting, lets go over the options available:

1) Have an attorney write a letter to the board pointing out the legalities and see if they change course
2) Raise the issue with members, gather support, volunteers and vote the board out.
3) Start a legal case against the board.

Realistically, these are the only options I can see.
Are there others?

Keep in mind that Mike has already raised the issue with the board himself and they board is not changing course, so that option is out.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/09/2020 2:27 PM
Based on Mikes recent posting, lets go over the options available:

1) Have an attorney write a letter to the board pointing out the legalities and see if they change course
2) Raise the issue with members, gather support, volunteers and vote the board out.
3) Start a legal case against the board.

Realistically, these are the only options I can see.
Are there others?

Keep in mind that Mike has already raised the issue with the board himself and they board is not changing course, so that option is out.

My plan if I can kick this COVID virus.

Thanks.

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