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MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
I would like to hear from some of you wise and thoughtful people as to why owners want to serve on the Board. No salary, can be sued, someone always mad at you, have to follow state, city and federal laws and make some very difficult decisions that may cost a lot money, so why join?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Enlightened self-interest. Keeping that in mind helps during those times that you wonder what on earth you were thinking.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
The biggest reason by far for me on two occasions was that specific infrastructure had been neglected to the point that significant property damage was occurring. In both instances Owners were speaking out and objecting.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
To be sure some Ahole does not get elected.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
I don't, but I have helped the board on various projects when asked.

Why? I have skills that the board wants, and I want to keep things in order for my property, and prevent bad people from taking control.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
MichaelS56,
After doing this going on my 11th year I have found four very specific type of board members.

1) The nosey neighbor type that wants to know all the things going on in the HOA. They also want everyone who breaks a rule punished except if they happen to break one.

2) The second type wants to get that 1 thing changed that really bugs them. They really could care less about all the rest of the many items that go into board life. They fight for their thing to get done and then they check out. This is the worst board member in my opinion.

3) The third one is the one that wants to say that they are on a board and really could care less about getting their hands dirty with anything other than ordering the PM around and attending the meetings when they are not too busy.

4) This is the person who has specific skills that are needed on boards. Examples of this are someone with accounting skills, Contracting skills, Management skills and on and on but has time to use these skills to help the PMC by giving advice when needed.

As you have stated HOA board members really have a tuff job and it is almost always thankless. Somebody has to do it and you are lucky if your HOA has more volunteers than are needed to fill your board seats. When you don't is when things really can get ugly. You can get the same tired and stale ideas or lack of ideas that fester in your HOA.

I personally am always on the lookout for new board members who have the talent, time and desire to run for our board seats. I always take the time to talk to them about what it takes to commit to the job and try to help them to get involved.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
When I joined the board, I did have an ulterior motive in mind. My home inspector noted the roof didn't have as many vents as it had room for (e.g. 3 were installed, but there were positions for four or five). He said it probably happened because the building code may have allowed 3, but if something later happened to the roof, the manufacturer might say "well, you didn't install all the vents according to our instructions and so you voided the warranty."

I figured if I joined the board, this was one issue I wouldn't let did and one day we might get the vents installed. I'm in a townhouse community, so my unit wasn't the only one with this issue. Eventually a hailstorm in 2007 damaged some of the roofs and the insurance company paid for all of them to be replaced and we got the correct number of vents because the building code had changed.

In the meantime, I learned a lot about the community and began taking interest in other issues, especially our high delinquency rate, which made it challenging to do anything, like fund reserves. By the time I left the board 10 years later), I'd learned a lot about budgeting, reserves, communications ( I reorganized the newsletter requiring to pay more attention to the Microsoft publisher program on my computer!).

All of that is to say this - no one will ever care about your home more than you, so if you want to have some idea of where your assessments are going, who's making those decisions and why, one of the best ways to find that out is by joining the board and having a hand in those decisions. NO, I don't get paid and yes, the work did take a chunk of time (especially during the 5 years I was the treasurer AND newsletter editor, AND represented the community at local CAI meetings and seminars).

Yes, people complained - I got tired of the "I don't see where my money's going - the community looks too run down!". They piped down when we'd reply " it would be easier to keep it up if some of you paid more attention to who you rented your units to! " or stop putting mattresses in the dumpster, forcing the association to pay someone to remove and dispose of them because the city won't empty the dumpsters with illegal deal in it! "

Yes, you need to have a better handle on local and state law than others, but then again, I often say homeownership isn't a spectator sport. You want your home to be clean, safe and attractive so your property values will have a chance of risk g, you need to do some work. Ideally, your neighbors feel as you do and will also take care of their homes without being told, but not all of them do, and so you may need peer pressure and sometimes a fine to drive home that point.

I get nervous about making difficult decisions, but is part of life, so that's not the issue. The issue is whether people asked questions, did the research and considered all their options before making g the decision. You're correct in that some people are uncomfortable with that because they don't always understand what you had to consider, even when you explain it 10 times. But just because it's difficult doesn't mean you can skip making tough decisions. You do the best you can and if it works, hooray. If not, learn from it, fix it and move on. Just like you do with everything else in life.

Someone on this website said he serves on his board because many of his neighbors are idiots, and if he serves, that may prevent them from signing up and f**king up the thing! That rationale works even better! If asshats are going to make the decisions, you may as well be one of them!


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
BOY, some of these responses are going to have people stop what they're doing and buy into a HOA community.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Or run away screaming and not Look back! Actually, that's not a bad thing - You what you want and what you can and can't deal with, because it is your money. If you don't want to live in a HOA community for whatever reason, that's ok.

If you do live in one, you have to accept you will need to keep an eye on some things. You don't have to serve on the board, but it would help to read board meeting minutes, take a look at the income/expense statements and attend the annual meeting so you can meet the board members. And READ YOUR DOCUMENTS, preferably before you buy.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 11/29/2020 9:47 AM
MichaelS56,
After doing this going on my 11th year I have found four very specific type of board members.

1) The nosey neighbor type that wants to know all the things going on in the HOA. They also want everyone who breaks a rule punished except if they happen to break one.

2) The second type wants to get that 1 thing changed that really bugs them. They really could care less about all the rest of the many items that go into board life. They fight for their thing to get done and then they check out. This is the worst board member in my opinion.

3) The third one is the one that wants to say that they are on a board and really could care less about getting their hands dirty with anything other than ordering the PM around and attending the meetings when they are not too busy.

4) This is the person who has specific skills that are needed on boards. Examples of this are someone with accounting skills, Contracting skills, Management skills and on and on but has time to use these skills to help the PMC by giving advice when needed.

As you have stated HOA board members really have a tuff job and it is almost always thankless. Somebody has to do it and you are lucky if your HOA has more volunteers than are needed to fill your board seats. When you don't is when things really can get ugly. You can get the same tired and stale ideas or lack of ideas that fester in your HOA.

I personally am always on the lookout for new board members who have the talent, time and desire to run for our board seats. I always take the time to talk to them about what it takes to commit to the job and try to help them to get involved.

This!!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I said to prevent some Ahole getting on the BOD but I will get serious. My present HOA is my 5th HOA and this came out in my conversations with the developer during the buying process. He and I got along well so he asked me to be on the advisory BOD. There were some things in the Covenants/Bylaws I did not like so I worked with him and the BOD to get them changed prior to turnover. The Advisory BOD stayed in place for 6 months after turnover, in 2005. I also realized our Reserves were not sufficient so I was advocating a dues increase. Well that doomed me. Come BOD Election time I finished one spot out by 2 votes. THE MC wanted me on the BOD and called me aside and said he could do a recount and I would get on the BOD. Well by then I was pi$$ED and I said F them.

It became obvious to all the new BOD was running scared and nothing was happening. Next Annual Meeting I was drafted to run by some owners at the Annual Meeting. I was still a bit pi$$ed and I said I did not care to serve with those that still had a year on their terms. Talk about some getting pi$$ed at me.......LOL

The next year I was drafted again by a new slate of people and we got word some of the existing BOD was not going to run, so I accepted. I have since been elected twice to two year terms. I am presently VP and Treasurer and have one year left on a two year term.

And yes, in my 2nd year on the BOD we did do a 40% dues increase. We planned it, explained it to all, showed spreadsheets, etc. prior to doing it. Not that people liked it but they were prepared for it. We only had one owner go to the mat with us saying we could not do it. Once we showed him we had the right to do it, he went silent.

If I see people running for the BOD that I agree with, I would not run again but to protect myself I will if I have to. As we have to draft people to be on the BOD, the position would be mine if I want it.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/29/2020 11:15 AM
I also realized our Reserves were not sufficient so I was advocating a dues increase. Well that doomed me. Come BOD Election time I finished one spot out by 2 votes.
[nodding; I know what you mean]
Quote:
THE MC wanted me on the BOD and called me aside and said he could do a recount and I would get on the BOD.
Jesus, Joseph and Mary. How stupid can an MC be, not just in cheating in an election, but putting on record his offer to do so. Where there's fire, there's fire. I can begin to imagine the other way this guy cheats and breaks the law.

I shall keep in mind the recent reports of consulting company McKinsey, with their crew of young, "hot shot" (in their own tiny, sheltered minds), Ivy League graduates cr-pping on this country and the world in oh-so-constructive-and-imaginative ways. In other words: Yup, college graduates can be just as corrupt as those with only a high school diploma.

It's stories like this that will allow me to go in clear-eyed should I ever land at another HOA/condo.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/29/2020 11:27 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/29/2020 11:15 AM
I also realized our Reserves were not sufficient so I was advocating a dues increase. Well that doomed me. Come BOD Election time I finished one spot out by 2 votes.
[nodding; I know what you mean]
Quote:
THE MC wanted me on the BOD and called me aside and said he could do a recount and I would get on the BOD.
Jesus, Joseph and Mary. How stupid can an MC be, not just in cheating in an election, but putting on record his offer to do so. Where there's fire, there's fire. I can begin to imagine the other way this guy cheats and breaks the law.

I shall keep in mind the recent reports of consulting company McKinsey, with their crew of young, "hot shot" (in their own tiny, sheltered minds), Ivy League graduates cr-pping on this country and the world in oh-so-constructive-and-imaginative ways. In other words: Yup, college graduates can be just as corrupt as those with only a high school diploma.

It's stories like this that will allow me to go in clear-eyed should I ever land at another HOA/condo.

Allow me to clarify. The MC did not say he could rig the election. He said he could do a double check of voter eligibility and do a recount to be sure the vote was correct. My lawyer Rudi was frothing at the mouth and leaking hair dye to do so but I said no...........LOL
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/29/2020 11:32 AM

Allow me to clarify. The MC did not say he could rig the election.
Oh no, of course not.

Why ever would he even think of saying such a thing?
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/29/2020 11:32 AM
He said he could do a double check of voter eligibility and do a recount to be sure the vote was correct. My lawyer Rudi was frothing at the mouth and leaking hair dye to do so but I said no...........LOL
I will take your word for it that there was a bad odor to all this.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
JohnC,
Did you your HOA really do a 40% increase all at one time? That is a crazy amount and I would assume that the community would want the past boards heads. It also would require a 67% vote of the Community to get passed. That is usually nearly impossible to get. Usually it is much easier to raise the dues 9% so that the board is able to do it without getting a super majority from the entire HOA. Obviously you should always document the needs and the reasoning for any increase.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 11/29/2020 11:54 AM
JohnC,
Did you your HOA really do a 40% increase all at one time? That is a crazy amount and I would assume that the community would want the past boards heads. It also would require a 67% vote of the Community to get passed.
I am curious. I believe you have indicated membership, and possibly service on boards, in HOAs/Condos in both California and Texas. Regarding the 67% vote you claim above: Does South Carolina law say what you claim it says? Have you seen JohnC46's HOA's governing documents? What's your citation for your claim?
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/29/2020 11:27 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/29/2020 11:15 AM
I also realized our Reserves were not sufficient so I was advocating a dues increase. Well that doomed me. Come BOD Election time I finished one spot out by 2 votes.
[nodding; I know what you mean]
Quote:
THE MC wanted me on the BOD and called me aside and said he could do a recount and I would get on the BOD.
Jesus, Joseph and Mary. How stupid can an MC be, not just in cheating in an election, but putting on record his offer to do so. Where there's fire, there's fire. I can begin to imagine the other way this guy cheats and breaks the law.

I shall keep in mind the recent reports of consulting company McKinsey, with their crew of young, "hot shot" (in their own tiny, sheltered minds), Ivy League graduates cr-pping on this country and the world in oh-so-constructive-and-imaginative ways. In other words: Yup, college graduates can be just as corrupt as those with only a high school diploma.

It's stories like this that will allow me to go in clear-eyed should I ever land at another HOA/condo.

Corruption is everywhere, but in my experience, the McKinsey analysts of the world are a lot sharper and more ethical than the property managers of the world. If a property manager lies, what's at stake--perhaps $50k a year in fees from a HOA? If a McKinsey managing director lies, what's at stake? Perhaps millions of dollars of revenue. There is a lot more of a disincentive for a McKinsey MD to be honest than there is for a property manager to be honest.

But back on topic, I think that most HOA board members mean well and try.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The original reason I ran is because of "Love". It's that age old story... Girl gets out of bad relationship, buys her first house, and meets a good looking handyman/President of HOA. Thinks she met the man she's going to marry and live happily ever after... Only to find out a month later that he is a scumbag lying manipulator only out for himself. Spends next few month running for office to kick the Ahole out of office and returning the HOA to proper working order.

Spent 3 years of my life dedicated to not only serving but protecting the HOA from this guy and his followers. Succeeded in turning the HOA around and house sales out of this world. The place never looked better. Rules were enforced and financially stable. However, it cost me my personal life.

So it has to be "love" but not of a person. It has to be of community. I learned that after all was said and done. If you have love of your community then running and being on the board is an award/privilege. Would I do it again? Yes to a point. It would NOT involve the mistake of being involved with that scumbag. (I am being very nice in calling him scumbag as silence doesn't translate).

Former HOA President
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Augustin,
Yes I spent 8 years on my Ca. board and into my third year on this Texas board. All of my comments will always be from the perspective of the 2 States that I have served on. Most CC&Rs are all based on very similar language and do have minor differences from HOA to HOA and also State to State. Who on this site has the time to do the State by State fact checks?

In most HOAs if you want to get people to wake up and pay attention of what's going on raise the dues. I am talking about even a few dollars that is why I was shocked by the 40% increase all at one time. It would seem logical to me that every State would try and protect HOs from rouge boards either not raising the dues or aggressively raising the dues without some checks and balances.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:08 PM
Corruption is everywhere, but in my experience, the McKinsey analysts of the world are a lot sharper and more ethical than the property managers of the world.
Hm. This is a tough one. For now I'll wager you are not up to speed on the latest McKinsey scandal, involving Big Pharma and Oxycontin.
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:08 PM

If a property manager lies, what's at stake--perhaps $50k a year in fees from a HOA? If a McKinsey managing director lies, what's at stake? Perhaps millions of dollars of revenue.
I think you're forgetting that (1) at McKinsey, the incentive to lie is also measured in millions of dollars; lies can make an associate rich; and (2) McKinsey decisions have argued for death over life, because this made good business sense for a McKinsey client.

Your sentimental words about how beautiful and responsible corporate America is are lost on me.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 11/29/2020 12:14 PM
Augustin,
Yes I spent 8 years on my Ca. board and into my third year on this Texas board. All of my comments will always be from the perspective of the 2 States that I have served on. Most CC&Rs are all based on very similar language and do have minor differences from HOA to HOA and also State to State. Who on this site has the time to do the State by State fact checks?
Huh. Interesting. You're an older, retired gentleman, yes? Well-meaning of course (seriously). Volunteered a buzillion hours over many years, yes?

In my experience, this is actually a major difference from HOA to HOA and state to state. Some states have caps. Many do not. Some HOA's gov docs have caps. Many do not.

Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 11/29/2020 12:14 PM
In most HOAs if you want to get people to wake up and pay attention of what's going on raise the dues. I am talking about even a few dollars that is why I was shocked by the 40% increase all at one time. It would seem logical to me that every State would try and protect HOs from rouge boards either not raising the dues or aggressively raising the dues without some checks and balances.
This may seem logical, but it is not the law in South Carolina. Also, I have seen many governing documents that either do not limit how much the board can increase the annual assessment or do not limit the amount of a special assessment.

I queried you, granted somewhat rudely, as part of my microstudy of... oh never mind. Count me as rude.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/29/2020 12:19 PM
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:08 PM
Corruption is everywhere, but in my experience, the McKinsey analysts of the world are a lot sharper and more ethical than the property managers of the world.
Hm. This is a tough one. For now I'll wager you are not up to speed on the latest McKinsey scandal, involving Big Pharma and Oxycontin.
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:08 PM

If a property manager lies, what's at stake--perhaps $50k a year in fees from a HOA? If a McKinsey managing director lies, what's at stake? Perhaps millions of dollars of revenue.
I think you're forgetting that (1) at McKinsey, the incentive to lie is also measured in millions of dollars; lies can make an associate rich; and (2) McKinsey decisions have argued for death over life, because this made good business sense for a McKinsey client.

Your sentimental words about how beautiful and responsible corporate America is are lost on me.

Hi Augustin, I respect and agree with you too much to get into an online argument. In my view, if someone in an elite law firm, elite investment bank or elite consulting firm lies, then the reputational damage borne by the person's organization can be enormous. If someone in a property management firm lies, the reputational damage may not be that great.

As examples, we saw the PM in the HOA in NC that I dealt with, and I was helping my current HOA's board with some matters and we also uncovered some bad behavior--specifically, the PM had been informed by board members that his actions were a violation of criminal law. The PM said, in the board meeting, that he didn't care, and he continued with the activity that was alleged to be criminal. Nothing happened. So my experiences in the world of HOAs are limited, but I've been shocked by the lack of ethics that I've seen in some HOA situations.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
For those that asked about out 40% dues increase. One of the obligations of our HOA is to replace the roofs and siding on each home when needed. Roofs alone are about $600K project, to commence in 2027 and be done over 7 years. Siding comes in a bit less and commences in 2040. Our Reserves could not handle either. One thing we said was all of the increase would go to a Roofing Siding Reserve.

Below is cut from our Covenants. In summary, the BOD can do a once a year for any amount increase. Owners must be notified on or before 12/01 and it becomes effective 01/01. Owners do not have/get to approve it. They (a majority of all owners) can reject it though. It would take a Special Meeting and 51% of all owners disapproving.

Section 3. Contribution.
It shall be the duty of the Board to prepare a budget covering the estimated costs of operating the Association during the coming year, which may, if applicable, include a capital contribution or reserve in accordance with a capital budget separately prepared. The Board shall cause the budget and the assessments to be levied against each Lot for the following year to be delivered to each member at least thirty (30) days prior to the end of the current fiscal year (or, if the assessment has not been established at the time an Owner purchases such Owner's Lot, at least thirty (30) days prior to the due date of the first installment in the ease of the initial budget). The budget and the assessment shall become effective unless disapproved at a meeting by a majority of the Total Association Vote. Notwithstanding the foregoing, however, in the event the membership disapproves the proposed budget or the Board fails for any reason so to determine the budget for the succeeding year, then and until such time as a budget shall have been determined, as provided herein, the budget in effect for the then current year shall continue for the succeeding year, but shall be increased by a factor equal to the percentage increase in the prior year of the US Consumer Price Index (CPI-U) for All items in Urban Areas as published by the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Augustin,
I would view your comments as direct not rude. I don't get on this site to fight or argue with anyone. Just like my board life I am trying to give my honest feedback to people that care to read it.

If you call 61 years as being old then yes I guess I am. I was fortunate to save and invest with probably a little luck and be able to retire at the age of 57. I have been blessed with many things. I choose to do the work on the board because I care and have the time and talent.

I have always wondered and may have seen you mention it in a previous post but where are you located and how are you able to know about so many different State HOA laws?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:29 PM
Hi Augustin, I respect and agree with you too much to get into an online argument.
I agree about avoiding argument. But really, it's fine if you want to skip having any respect for anyone.
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:29 PM
In my view, if someone in an elite law firm, elite investment bank or elite consulting firm lies, then the reputational damage borne by the person's organization can be enormous.
I am just chattering in a so far friendly polemic exchange here, before GeorgeS21 kvetches.

I am not sure I care about the "reputational damage" done by a possible lie in a large organization. I guess sometimes this puts a lot of lower income folks out of work, either directly or through trickle down. The latter is certainly b-a-d.
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:29 PM
If someone in a property management firm lies, the reputational damage may not be that great.
I have seen property managers lie about individual owners in huge, destructive ways. I agree to disagree with you on this point.
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:29 PM
As examples, we saw the PM in the HOA in NC that I dealt with, and I was helping my current HOA's board with some matters and we also uncovered some bad behavior--specifically, the PM had been informed by board members that his actions were a violation of criminal law. The PM said, in the board meeting, that he didn't care, and he continued with the activity that was alleged to be criminal. Nothing happened. So my experiences in the world of HOAs are limited, but I've been shocked by the lack of ethics that I've seen in some HOA situations.
I think perhaps you and I agree that the regulation of HOAs/condos is lacking, with some states being better than others. One only gets some kind of justice if one pays a lot of money to an attorney in these HOA/condo situations.

I guess I'd say: It's not all black and white. I mean, developers could only build some of the nice places I lived if they submitted to the will of City ordinances and set up HOAs/condo boards. It's not like it's developers fault. Cities are budget-strapped and wanted to unload road et cetera maintenance onto subdivisions and their HOAs. Terrible system and all that, but I can't think of a better one. And all that.
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Hi Augustin, we are on the same page.

But just as an example: The PM that knowingly continued activities that have been alleged to be criminal is still in business and hasn’t lost any customers as far as I know. The PM in NC that was sued for fraud is still in business and hasn’t lost any customers as far as I know.

By comparison, while I can’t defend Wells Fargo, at least it got fined and some members of senior management were busted by regulators, and accounting firms that engage in misconduct get put out of business (eg, Enron). And in my company, if a customer lies, we immediately terminate our relationship with the customer- we can’t have anything to do with someone who lies.

But I digress. We think alike, generally.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
ā€œWantā€ to be a Board member? No.

ā€œSomeone must do the workā€ of a Board member? Yes.

I have been on the Board of every HOA in which I have owned property - having just moved I volunteered to be on the finance committee. I was working full time in all the others. One was for a rental house neighborhood - because they were all retired, clueless and needed the help.

I never had an ulterior, or singular motive - except to be be helpful.

I do hate bullies (noticeable from some of my posts?), and while not seeing these prior to joining boards, once onboard, there was always at least one - I leaned in on each to re-establish fairness - usually all that was required was education of the constituency.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 11/29/2020 12:34 PM
Augustin,
I would view your comments as direct not rude. I don't get on this site to fight or argue with anyone. Just like my board life I am trying to give my honest feedback to people that care to read it.
Meant sincerely: I understand. In my opinion and FWIW, I think you do often post good counsel and are a worthwhile read.
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 11/29/2020 12:34 PM
If you call 61 years as being old then yes I guess I am.
Since I am receiving some senior discounts these days, I will go with Amy Klobuchar's retort to 38-year-old Pete Buttigieg, touting himself as a fresh face, that "59 is the new 38."
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 11/29/2020 12:34 PM
I have always wondered and may have seen you mention it in a previous post but where are you located and how are you able to know about so many different State HOA laws?
I believe it's (really, just) the power of the internet combined perhaps with some ability to quickly identify key words that get results in searches, as a consequence of a lot of experience in school and life. These days I think a fifth grader could pull up the HOA/condo/corporate statutes I do; find the appropriate statute section; post it here; do so on their phones while texting a buddy with fifth grade gossip; and do so more quickly. Silicon Valley, where's that free "Find-the-applicable-HOA/Condo-law" app? I imagine the kiddos would struggle some with case law, though. The key words require more experience than they have.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:57 PM
But just as an example: The PM that knowingly continued activities that have been alleged to be criminal is still in business and hasn’t lost any customers as far as I know. The PM in NC that was sued for fraud is still in business and hasn’t lost any customers as far as I know.

By comparison, while I can’t defend Wells Fargo, at least it got fined and some members of senior management were busted by regulators, and accounting firms that engage in misconduct get put out of business (eg, Enron). And in my company, if a customer lies, we immediately terminate our relationship with the customer- we can’t have anything to do with someone who lies.
And Arthur Andersen, now defunct.

I happily concede your point that the 'professionalism' of HOA managers and boards, in general, greatly lags that of that part of corporate America that caters directly to consumers.

Though I will continue to insist that the typical HOA/condo Owner is as clueless or more clueless than HOA/condo boards and managers about the governing docs and what the obligations of the HOA/condo are. If boards and managers are unprofessional, well the Owners are as much or more unprofessional.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 11/29/2020 11:01 AM
Or run away screaming and not Look back!

Unfortunately true. My HOA typically gets people to volunteer for the board, or to run for election, who think being on the board is a walk in the park where they won't really have to do much in the way of work. When my board first started spreading the news that we'd be looking for 4 new directors next year I spoke up to gently remind everyone that we're looking at negotiating and overseeing $300,000 contracts for big-ticket replacement projects out of the reserves in each of the next 5 years. My purpose was to dissuade those who figured it was a casual thing to be on the board. We normally have a tough time finding board volunteers anyway and for next year, there were almost no takers. We finally topped out with 4 volunteers (to complete a board of 5).
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/29/2020 1:31 PM
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:57 PM
But just as an example: The PM that knowingly continued activities that have been alleged to be criminal is still in business and hasn’t lost any customers as far as I know. The PM in NC that was sued for fraud is still in business and hasn’t lost any customers as far as I know.

By comparison, while I can’t defend Wells Fargo, at least it got fined and some members of senior management were busted by regulators, and accounting firms that engage in misconduct get put out of business (eg, Enron). And in my company, if a customer lies, we immediately terminate our relationship with the customer- we can’t have anything to do with someone who lies.
And Arthur Andersen, now defunct.

I happily concede your point that the 'professionalism' of HOA managers and boards, in general, greatly lags that of that part of corporate America that caters directly to consumers.

Though I will continue to insist that the typical HOA/condo Owner is as clueless or more clueless than HOA/condo boards and managers about the governing docs and what the obligations of the HOA/condo are. If boards and managers are unprofessional, well the Owners are as much or more unprofessional.

I agree with you 100%.

Perhaps one way to change that would be to require that on each HOA board, there would need to be one person with accounting experience, one with legal experience and one with real estate experience. But then it would involve actually getting those types to volunteer.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 1:46 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 11/29/2020 1:31 PM
Posted By ChrisE8 on 11/29/2020 12:57 PM
But just as an example: The PM that knowingly continued activities that have been alleged to be criminal is still in business and hasn’t lost any customers as far as I know. The PM in NC that was sued for fraud is still in business and hasn’t lost any customers as far as I know.

By comparison, while I can’t defend Wells Fargo, at least it got fined and some members of senior management were busted by regulators, and accounting firms that engage in misconduct get put out of business (eg, Enron). And in my company, if a customer lies, we immediately terminate our relationship with the customer- we can’t have anything to do with someone who lies.
And Arthur Andersen, now defunct.

I happily concede your point that the 'professionalism' of HOA managers and boards, in general, greatly lags that of that part of corporate America that caters directly to consumers.

Though I will continue to insist that the typical HOA/condo Owner is as clueless or more clueless than HOA/condo boards and managers about the governing docs and what the obligations of the HOA/condo are. If boards and managers are unprofessional, well the Owners are as much or more unprofessional.


I agree with you 100%.

Perhaps one way to change that would be to require that on each HOA board, there would need to be one person with accounting experience, one with legal experience and one with real estate experience. But then it would involve actually getting those types to volunteer.

That would be nice, but what if your community doesn't have ANYONE with those skills?

I would like to see more HOA board's emphasize training. If you have a local CAI chapter and it sponsors some sort of boot camp for new board members, I think the association should pay for newbies to go. It's nice if you've served on the board of your church, sorority or a busibess, but everybody on this website knows HOA board's are a different kind of mosquito.

The more experienced board members should also commit to continuing education. Perhaps split it up, with one person learning about rule enforcement, someone else about reserves, another person about collections, etc. Have those folks give brief presentations on what they've learned. Everyone should have training on effective communications, dealing with difficult people, running effective meetings, anything that helps you interact with people effectively especially the dull, clueless and ignorant (they're homeowners too and You represent them).

It doesn't matter if you've had the training before - with every session you always learn something new if you're paying attention. It doesn't have to be in person training - online training or even cracking open a book (or turning on your Kindle) will work.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Thank you, SheilaH-great points.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
The two most PIA's I served on BOD's with were lawyers and teachers. Lawyers wanted legal opinions on everything and were first to say we could not do somethings we could do. Teachers wanted to treat owers like immature students and punish all for the actions of one.
SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49
Posted:
#1 is an issue, Do as I say not as I do. Sounds like a politician. LOL
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
My single biggest issue on any board, ever, was a cheap bastard. I would like to say he was fiscally conservative, but he wasn't. He was just a cheap bastard -and argumentative about every single penny - wasting countless, irreplaceable hours of my life (hence the reason you see my posts discussion ankle biting, time wasters so often). Additionally, he was nasty - to anyone and everyone who disagreed with him - me, too, until, at the third meeting I made is clear I would wait outside for him if he continued to demean everyone. He was a big guy, but it would have been worth the pain and lawsuit - he was, surprise, also litigious.

Sometimes a board is simply a nice group of folks who will go along with a reasonable plan presented by others - these work out well if one person develops the plan, does the work, and asks for their supportive votes.

Sometimes a board is dysfunctional for a variety of reasons - a list too long.

Almost all boards are made up of folks who spend: (a) the time in the meeting, plus (b) 5 minutes a month, thinking of the associations business.

Few board members think about the future - and, rarely the present.
NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
To ensure the Board is fiscally conservative spending wise and that the reserves are well funded to guard against future special assessments.
JamesJ16
Posts: 40
Posted:
Oh, thank you so much for the last paragraph! That is exactly what I am dealing with and needed this clarity and motivation. Don't get me wrong the first part was informative, just not motivational, great closing!
JamesJ16
Posts: 40
Posted:
Oh, thank you so much for the last paragraph! That is exactly what I am dealing with and needed this clarity and motivation. Don't get me wrong the first part was informative, just not motivational, great closing!
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
It's a tough role to take on, but you get to have a major say about the key issues that impact your community. Board members get to take a deep look at the financial health and well-being of the association, and can then use that information to make critical choices for the future of the association. In short, it gives you an opportunity to change or improve the place that you live. You also may develop useful skills, such as project management, that you can apply to other aspects of your life.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
It's a tough role to take on, but you get to have a major say about the key issues that impact your community. Board members get to take a deep look at the financial health and well-being of the association, and can then use that information to make critical choices for the future of the association. In short, it gives you an opportunity to change or improve the place that you live. You also may develop useful skills, such as project management, that you can apply to other aspects of your life.
DirkH1 (Indiana)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I've lived in HOA's for 13 years and never went to any meetings or was involved in any way. I paid my dues, followed the covenants, and the ignorance was bliss. however, I got involved 2.5 years ago when I saw what I believed to be a serious injustice by our previous HOA board towards a resident who installed a fence and it had all of the residents pissed. I agree with the quote "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing" so I volunteered. I became the HOA vice president and 1 year after taking the position, I found out that the info that I heard about the injustice that resulted in me volunteering was completely false and determined that the HOA was completely in the right. I didn't let that deter me though because it is my opinion that there are many more people in our neighborhood who would do a much worse job than me. Our HOA president stepped down after calling a resident a 'real piece of Sh*t' in an email and BAM, now I'm in charge. It feels good to hear the thanks from the residents who appreciate us volunteering and that usually overrides the constant whining and complaining about things that are not even listed in the CCR's.

so, why do I do it? because someone has to and it might be someone stupider than me and we can't have that!

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DirkH1 on 12/04/2020 11:11 AM
I've lived in HOA's for 13 years and never went to any meetings or was involved in any way. I paid my dues, followed the covenants, and the ignorance was bliss. however, I got involved 2.5 years ago when I saw what I believed to be a serious injustice by our previous HOA board towards a resident who installed a fence and it had all of the residents pissed. I agree with the quote "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing" so I volunteered. I became the HOA vice president and 1 year after taking the position, I found out that the info that I heard about the injustice that resulted in me volunteering was completely false and determined that the HOA was completely in the right. I didn't let that deter me though because it is my opinion that there are many more people in our neighborhood who would do a much worse job than me. Our HOA president stepped down after calling a resident a 'real piece of Sh*t' in an email and BAM, now I'm in charge. It feels good to hear the thanks from the residents who appreciate us volunteering and that usually overrides the constant whining and complaining about things that are not even listed in the CCR's.

so, why do I do it? because someone has to and it might be someone stupider than me and we can't have that!


Love it.

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