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SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49
Posted:
In Florida, does the homeowner have the right to present evidence at the fining committee meeting to show the 3 member committee why the fine(s) should not be imposed?

I don't see the right for the homeowner to present evidence at the hearing?

In our HOA the Board presents evidence, the homeowner only speaks if asked a question. Then Committee decides. This is their interpretation.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Please quote the applicable section of FS720?
SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49
Posted:
The 2020 Florida Statutes

Title XL
REAL AND PERSONAL PROPERTY
Chapter 720
HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATIONS
View Entire Chapter
720.305 Obligations of members; remedies at law or in equity; levy of fines and suspension of use rights.—
(1) Each member and the member’s tenants, guests, and invitees, and each association, are governed by, and must comply with, this chapter, the governing documents of the community, and the rules of the association. Actions at law or in equity, or both, to redress alleged failure or refusal to comply with these provisions may be brought by the association or by any member against:
(a) The association;
(b) A member;
(c) Any director or officer of an association who willfully and knowingly fails to comply with these provisions; and
(d) Any tenants, guests, or invitees occupying a parcel or using the common areas.
The prevailing party in any such litigation is entitled to recover reasonable attorney fees and costs. A member prevailing in an action between the association and the member under this section, in addition to recovering his or her reasonable attorney fees, may recover additional amounts as determined by the court to be necessary to reimburse the member for his or her share of assessments levied by the association to fund its expenses of the litigation. This relief does not exclude other remedies provided by law. This section does not deprive any person of any other available right or remedy.

(2) The association may levy reasonable fines. A fine may not exceed $100 per violation against any member or any member’s tenant, guest, or invitee for the failure of the owner of the parcel or its occupant, licensee, or invitee to comply with any provision of the declaration, the association bylaws, or reasonable rules of the association unless otherwise provided in the governing documents. A fine may be levied by the board for each day of a continuing violation, with a single notice and opportunity for hearing, except that the fine may not exceed $1,000 in the aggregate unless otherwise provided in the governing documents. A fine of less than $1,000 may not become a lien against a parcel. In any action to recover a fine, the prevailing party is entitled to reasonable attorney fees and costs from the nonprevailing party as determined by the court.
(a) An association may suspend, for a reasonable period of time, the right of a member, or a member’s tenant, guest, or invitee, to use common areas and facilities for the failure of the owner of the parcel or its occupant, licensee, or invitee to comply with any provision of the declaration, the association bylaws, or reasonable rules of the association. This paragraph does not apply to that portion of common areas used to provide access or utility services to the parcel. A suspension may not prohibit an owner or tenant of a parcel from having vehicular and pedestrian ingress to and egress from the parcel, including, but not limited to, the right to park.
(b) A fine or suspension levied by the board of administration may not be imposed unless the board first provides at least 14 days’ notice to the parcel owner and, if applicable, any occupant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner, sought to be fined or suspended and an opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, the proposed fine or suspension may not be imposed. The role of the committee is limited to determining whether to confirm or reject the fine or suspension levied by the board. If the proposed fine or suspension levied by the board is approved by the committee, the fine payment is due 5 days after the date of the committee meeting at which the fine is approved. The association must provide written notice of such fine or suspension by mail or hand delivery to the parcel owner and, if applicable, to any tenant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner.
(3) If a member is more than 90 days delinquent in paying any fee, fine, or other monetary obligation due to the association, the association may suspend the rights of the member, or the member’s tenant, guest, or invitee, to use common areas and facilities until the fee, fine, or other monetary obligation is paid in full. This subsection does not apply to that portion of common areas used to provide access or utility services to the parcel. A suspension may not prohibit an owner or tenant of a parcel from having vehicular and pedestrian ingress to and egress from the parcel, including, but not limited to, the right to park. The notice and hearing requirements under subsection (2) do not apply to a suspension imposed under this subsection.
(4) An association may suspend the voting rights of a parcel or member for the nonpayment of any fee, fine, or other monetary obligation due to the association that is more than 90 days delinquent. A voting interest or consent right allocated to a parcel or member which has been suspended by the association shall be subtracted from the total number of voting interests in the association, which shall be reduced by the number of suspended voting interests when calculating the total percentage or number of all voting interests available to take or approve any action, and the suspended voting interests shall not be considered for any purpose, including, but not limited to, the percentage or number of voting interests necessary to constitute a quorum, the percentage or number of voting interests required to conduct an election, or the percentage or number of voting interests required to approve an action under this chapter or pursuant to the governing documents. The notice and hearing requirements under subsection (2) do not apply to a suspension imposed under this subsection. The suspension ends upon full payment of all obligations currently due or overdue to the association.
(5) All suspensions imposed pursuant to subsection (3) or subsection (4) must be approved at a properly noticed board meeting. Upon approval, the association must notify the parcel owner and, if applicable, the parcel’s occupant, licensee, or invitee by mail or hand delivery.
(6) The suspensions permitted by paragraph (2)(a) and subsections (3) and (4) apply to a member and, when appropriate, the member’s tenants, guests, or invitees, even if the delinquency or failure that resulted in the suspension arose from less than all of the multiple parcels owned by a member.
History.—s. 37, ch. 92-49; s. 55, ch. 95-274; s. 2, ch. 97-311; s. 51, ch. 2000-258; s. 20, ch. 2004-345; s. 17, ch. 2004-353; s. 12, ch. 2007-173; s. 8, ch. 2008-202; s. 24, ch. 2010-174; s. 18, ch. 2011-196; s. 16, ch. 2013-188; s. 17, ch. 2015-97; s. 14, ch. 2018-96.
Note.—Former s. 617.305.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
The whole purpose of the requirement for a hearing is for the accused to be able to present her or his side. This is a fundamental tenet of "due process." The courts time and again have been clear that they expect HOAs/condos to offer a certain amount of "due process" when fining a person. Nationwide, courts expect HOAs/Condos to offer a hearing; proper notice of the violation; and compliance with the HOA's/Condo's own governing documents where the governing documents speak, implicitly or otherwise, of due process. As part of the hearing, the accused can and should present evidence that supports her or his position.
SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49
Posted:
Common sense right?

here is the Agenda:

1. Call to Order
1. Establish Quorum
2. Confirmation of Notice
3. Chairperson announces the purpose of the meeting, estimated length of
the session and names and persons attending
a. Board representative presents evidence of violation
b. Committee either confirms or rejects the fines
5. Adjournment
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I think you need a 3b section that permits the accused violator to present his/her side of the story. Anything less amounts to a kangaroo court where the outcome has been pre-determined before the hearing even begins.
SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49
Posted:
GenoS The agenda was allegedly HOA Board lawyer's interpretation of the statute.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I say the proper procedure is:

1. Call to Order
1. Establish Quorum
2. Confirmation of Notice
3. Chairperson announces the purpose of the meeting and persons involved
a. Board representative presents evidence of violation
b. Accused presents evidence disputing the violation
c. Committee either confirms or rejects the fines
5. Adjournment
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SmartS on 11/27/2020 1:13 PM
GenoS The agenda was allegedly HOA Board lawyer's interpretation of the statute.


FS 720.305(2)(b) says, "A fine or suspension levied by the board of administration may not be imposed unless the board first provides at least 14 days’ notice to the parcel owner and, if applicable, any occupant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner, sought to be fined or suspended and an opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, the proposed fine or suspension may not be imposed. The role of the committee is limited to determining whether to confirm or reject the fine or suspension levied by the board."

Any attorney who advises that a "hearing" may be one-sided to the point that the fining committee can "determine whether to confirm or reject the fine" only by listening to the board's side of the story should be guilty of something, in my opinion. Some attorneys are just bad. I'm not an attorney so take it for what it's worth, but if it was my I'd be looking to fire that attorney tout de suite.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Invited to a Hearing implies one can speak. Otherwise it would be called Invited to a Listen.......LOL
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
SmartS, I see you're pursuing this subject on multiple threads. Please pick one and stick to it.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 11/27/2020 3:04 PM
SmartS, I see you're pursuing this subject on multiple threads. Please pick one and stick to it.

Smart is shopping for the answers s/he wants to hear.
SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49
Posted:
Not shopping, merely pointed out that it does not say it in the Statute itself so I was looking for a way to show the Judge a hearing means both sides get to speak. It is bc legislators can't seem to write or correct laws...or maybe they just don't want to.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SmartS on 11/27/2020 5:20 PM
[snippage] it does not say it in the Statute itself so I was looking for a way to show the Judge a hearing means both sides get to speak. It is bc legislators can't seem to write or correct laws...or maybe they just don't want to.
Or maybe you have not read enough about the law to realize that "hearing" is a part of "due process"; has a firm constitutional basis; and means hearing from both sides.

No judge will hear your case until you first comply with the FS 720's requirement to seek pre-suit mediation.
SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49
Posted:
Small claims in FL has mandatory pre suit mediation

As I stated, it just would be nice if they simply added the sentence "Homeowner gets to present evidence" so HOA's like this don't feel it is OK not to give Homeowner a chance to refute the evidence.

I thank you all for your help.

Based on a suggestion I have a legal definition of hearing to present.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SmartS on 11/27/2020 6:39 PM
Small claims in FL has mandatory pre suit mediation
I do not think so.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/27/2020 8:19 PM
Posted By SmartS on 11/27/2020 6:39 PM
Small claims in FL has mandatory pre suit mediation
I do not think so.
Bad on me. It looks like you are correct. Is there a reason that you brought this up, or are you just messing around?
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Our attorney is clear - re HOA, pre suit mediation is required.

I don’t think this is for small claims court, though.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/27/2020 8:34 PM
Our attorney is clear - re HOA, pre suit mediation is required.

I don’t think this is for small claims court, though.
I agree, because I think many HOA cases are about injunctive relief. Small claims court does not provide injunctive relief.

I do not know what point, if any, Smart-ss is trying to make.
SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49
Posted:
I did some research and found it appears in FL if the lawsuit is started by the HOA vs the Homeowner to collect a fine the pre suit does not apply. However, to my original question in this thread I found a July 2020 article from Becker firm:
https://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2020/07/13/fining-procedure-discussed/

In pertinent part:

"At the hearing, the committee must afford basic due process and allow the accused to be heard, state his case, and challenge evidence against him or her. The committee must then either “confirm” or “reject” the fine."

Since Becker firm helps write HOA law it may help since I can't find a case on point.

Off topic but brought up here :As for small claims mediation "Does it meet the requirement of 720.311"?

Still looking but the mediators in FL small claims perform a function as described in 720.311. I will call Monday to see if they are state certified mediators.

Just so you all know, I came here hoping that people here may have already gone through this and perhaps they or their attorney had the legal research already and it may be different than the old cases I found (that were mentioned). I will always share what I have or was given which is why I posted what I found in case someone ends up in this position.

I do appreciate the constructive comments and will not waste time messing with someone.

There is an attorney site but rarely do they actually give a case cite.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Florida - as our attorney provides finer detail:

Fine up to $100 per instance to a maximum of $1000. (Fines cannot serve as the basis for liens as they are personal, not related to the property.)
Fines are levied by the board.
Notice with 14 days period before Fines committee hearing.
Fines committee Confirms or Rejects the fine as levied by the Board.
If fine is rejected by the Fines committee it simply goes away.
If fine is Confirmed by the Fines committee, the Board must Approve the fine.
If fine is approved it is due within 5 days.
Pre/mediation prior to court action
Court action
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SmartS on 11/28/2020 5:28 AM
I did some research and found it appears in FL if the lawsuit is started by the HOA vs the Homeowner to collect a fine the pre suit does not apply.
FS 720.311 has been cited numerous times. If one looks at 720.311 (2) (a), one will see that this is where the statutory requirement for pre-suit mediation for covenant enforcement disputes like yours is.
Quote:
Posted By SmartS on 11/28/2020 5:28 AM
However, to my original question in this thread I found a July 2020 article from Becker firm:
https://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2020/07/13/fining-procedure-discussed/

In pertinent part:

"At the hearing, the committee must afford basic due process and allow the accused to be heard, state his case, and challenge evidence against him or her. The committee must then either “confirm” or “reject” the fine."

Since Becker firm helps write HOA law it may help since I can't find a case on point.
I have been researching what case law says nationwide about HOAs, condos, and due process, on account of my state's case law having nothing on this (not even for non-HOA, non-condo private corporations) in preparation for a court hearing. I have several citations from the courts nationwide for HOAs/Condos. The courts have found that HOAs/condos have an obligation to provide certain fundamental due process rights. But the only due process rights the courts have expressly called out expressly are the right to a hearing; the right to notice of a violation; and otherwise, the obligation of condos/Hoas to follow any due process requirements in their own governing documents.

Quote:
Posted By SmartS on 11/28/2020 5:28 AM
There is an attorney site but rarely do they actually give a case cite.
They won't give a case cite for your question about whether a "hearing," in a due process context, requires that the accused be given a chance to present evidence et cetera. Why? For all the reasons already given in this thread and other threads. But you are new to this. You are determined to find something. Try googling as follows (or similar):

"hearing" "due process" "association" "to be heard"https://law.justia.com/cases/florida/supreme-court/

Search the Florida courts of appeal sites similarly. Or don't.

Look for the case law that speaks to what is required for a hearing for a private organization. Your HOA is a private corporation. Hence.
Of the hits that come up, consider searching each of the following for the phrase "to be heard":

Attorney sites, including in Florida, frequently cite the case law on the obligations of HOA/condo Boards/ARCs when it comes to discretionary powers.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/28/2020 8:38 AM
"hearing" "due process" "association" "to be heard"https://law.justia.com/cases/florida/supreme-court/
Typ-o. Try:

"hearing" "due process" "association" "to be heard" site:https://law.justia.com/cases/florida/supreme-court/
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/27/2020 8:19 PM
Posted By SmartS on 11/27/2020 6:39 PM
Small claims in FL has mandatory pre suit mediation
I do not think so.

I think for certain HOA claims it does. Failure to provide access to requested records, for instance, requires one to attempt pre-suit mediation before filing even if the amount claimed is only $500.
DonS20 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SmartS on 11/27/2020 6:06 AM
In Florida, does the homeowner have the right to present evidence at the fining committee meeting to show the 3 member committee why the fine(s) should not be imposed?

I don't see the right for the homeowner to present evidence at the hearing?

In our HOA the Board presents evidence, the homeowner only speaks if asked a question. Then Committee decides. This is their interpretation.

I am interested in the final results of your subject matter. I been having similar problems with our self-directed Palm Beach County HOA.

Did you have a hearing?

Were you able to present your facts?

I am being denied access to Board documents. The letter I received did not contain any backup info. Only on this date this happened. After asking for various documents, the Board came back and said what I was asking to view were confidential.

I asked view, Email/photo/video that I feel are covered under the catch-all section, 720.303(4)(n). All of which are stored on a HOA laptop! Official records! I asked the Board to recheck with the attorney. They refused and told me to get my own attorney.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
This is an old post, so you should start a new conversation with your questions. Sometimes the original poster never returns with an update, and I'd hate to see you wait.

That said, does your community have any I formation on how it's appeals process eorks?b I would think it there was a hearing, you'd present your case with supporting documents and witnesses and they'd present theirs or at least give you a detailed reason why you were denied.

The type of violation and how the board learned of it may also come into play. If they receive d a complaint from a neighbor, investigated it and found you WERE violating the CCRs, the information gathered should have been presented in the hearing. If they acted on a complaint and the complainant wanted to remain anonymous, that could be trickier. Maybe that person did talk to you or tried to and an argument ensued and you made threats of the neighbor took it as such.

And then there's the violation itself DID you do something contrary to community rules? If so, you appealed and lost, you may have to chalk this up as lesson learned and go on and sin no more.

Bottom line, if you asked for their information and was refused, you may have no choice but to speak to a private attorney about your options, which may require your pursuing this in court. If it comes to that, there is a discovery process where both sides get access to the others information so they can prepare their case

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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