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JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
I am on the BOD and have seen one neighbor verbally abuse, make
legal threats, etc to most of the elected BODs. He has run twice
for BOD and hasn't been elected (no surprise). Yesterday he approached me,
saying if I didn't personally go to another neighbor and "tell her" to move her boat(yes, she was in violation) he would personally sue me, the
Board, PM, and anyone else left breathing. He really scares me, and I
have blocked him from my emails. Any suggestions on how to minimize his
rage, maintain some type of control, and avoid his threats. He handed me
a scathing email he had just sent me and I said I would like to share it
with the boatowner....at which time he nearly orbited, so I suggested he
forward it to management (PM). "The BOD weren't elected to police 140 homes. We have a PM so send your email." He claimed he didn't know how,
although I know he is a frequent flyer when it comes to complaining to the
PM. He isn't going to give up his sadistic nature. Any advice?
Jackie
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Every neighborhood has one. Just take the high road and sooner or later, he will alienate everyone...Even his friends and neighbors. Let the PM work the problem and do everything in writing (by the book), as per the docs. He's not going to file suit.. that's usually an idle threat. Make him put all his complaints in writing and channel them through the PM>. In our state there are curse and abuse laws for those that are abusive enough to use the "F" words. If it resorts to that, file charges against him. I wouldn't hesitate. No one deserves to take that kind of abuse when they are volunteering their services.
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Mike.......your words are so true. I am not worried about
his threats for law suit. That has been his MO the entire
4 years I have lived here. As far as the "F" word goes, actually
I had to bite my tongue. I am glad my thoughts were silent. I know he will burn his own bridges, but I just wonder if there isn't a better way
to handle him....avoidance, but what else? I read someplace that Elenore
Roosevelt said when someone is verbally ripping you apart, just smile.
That is so against my Italian blood.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Jackie,

Good luck - I have an abusive homeowner also. She left me a very threatening message on my answering machine which I gleefully saved and then filed a police report!

Here is my motto:

"Don't ever argue with an idiot - they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Amen - Karen!@
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Karen.......my abuser is smarter than yours. No physical threats!
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Let the PM take the heat. That's what they get paid for. If he shows up at the meetings and acts less than civil, ask him to leave or fold your and terminate the meeting.
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Mike.....I agree.
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
JackieB - While you should not personally go to any owner and tell them they are in violation, you should excersise consistent enforcement to make sure that owners comply with the cc&r's and bylaws. Don't make the mistake of passing off the responsibility to a PM, the buck, no matter how you slice it stops with you. The PM is an agent of the BOD, that's all.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
JackieB,
Why is the Board allowing a member of the association to act in this manner to another member. Makes no difference if you are on the Board or doing association work. I would think the Board would invite him to a little attitude adjustment meeting with the Board. Have your lawyer or a law officer there. He is breaking the law if he voices threats and uses threatening gestures. Have a police offic er give you the statute on civil conduct and read it at the meeting.

Give him fair warning and adjourn the meeting. The board is not there to argue or judge him, just to pass on important information to him.
NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Jackie,

Your arrogant and abusive neighbors brother lives in my development, and he was once on the BOD. He was forced off by the other BOD members for abusive behavior towards the board members and office personnel. We instituted a Rules of a Meeting notice. It is placed at the entrance to the BOD meeting. It states all the common sense actions you would expect of any human being. The last item is (not quoted) if you act up you will either get evicted from the meeting or the meeting will be ended and the minutes will reflect that it was ended because of your outburst.

This did not control our friend. He continued to belittle and berate his neighbors and the BOD. After trying every which way to deal with him, we sent him a legal letter two weeks ago, informing him that if he continued his abuse of neighbors and the BOD we would file a police report. Where we used to have complaints about him at least 3-4 times a week, we have not heard from him or anyone else about him in two weeks.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
Three articles that might help:

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/elizabethrhodes/condos_and_condo_associations/

Cut That Out! Home Owner Associations Must Define Harassment and Find Ways to Prevent it
http://www.meeb.com/legal_alert/legal_alert_07_06.htm

and if necessary:

Sticks and Stones: Boards Need to Think Twice Before Filing a Defamation Claim
http://www.meeb.com/legal_alert/legal_alert_12_06.htm

Joe

Joseph West
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Community Associations Network, LLC
www.CommunityAssociations.net

*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal
MicheleS3 (Florida)
Posts: 30
Posted:
I think the general consensus is correct - every neighborhood has one! We have one who constantly leaves messages on our phones telling us he is going to circulate a petition to have us all removed for silly things, like the lights at the entrance are not working. The best course of action for us has been to ignore him. Some people just like to hear themselves and are full of self-importance.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
MicheleS3,
I agree. The few "Problem childs" I have run across just can't get this HOA living. But think of what a plus it would be if they could direct their energy to the good of the community. I think I am borderline problem child. I still tend to be over critical, not so much in my criticism as in how I voice my opinions. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I tend to call it a duck. I have been proven wrong.
It may not work to try and channel the malecontents energy, but worth the effort. For one think, if you pass him on the street, you can respond in a civil manner. Another fact is; this kind of control over your life does not come easy for most, and apathy could be a manifestation of that mindset, as well.
SusanJ3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 61
Posted:
I agree with Robert. You know the BoD considers me to be a borderline problem child as I have been pretty relentless in my patio deal and wanting others to have the option to do the same thing, but I feel my criticisms are valid. It's taken time, but I've gotten support on it, and other homeowners have made observations as well about the BoD. I also think the board has done some good things for our community, but are these agressive hO really problem people or are their complaints valid? some of the people attacking our BoD just don't like their strategies. One members goes out and takes pictures of your place without asking or mentioning it to you, and then you get a letter from the PM. He feels people have been rude to him when they feel he could discuss with them what he's doing and why.
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Joe,
Who does the policing if not the PM? This particular
HO repeatedly violates and builds up expensive fines
for the same issue. Her boat, trailer and SUV are long
and violate the CCR's. She is wealthy and couldn't care less about
the fines.
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Let me assure you this HO is seriously mental. He seeks out a problem( his view) and takes it to the max. It becomes a quest for him rather than a problem that needs to be solved. It's his way and
NOW!!! But he won't send it to the proper sources. and he only does
this with women. Hmmmmm !!
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
It is not what he is saying but how he is saying it. Bringing up valid points to the board is fine but without using degrading tone or vulgar words that is just not acceptable!

People today feel like they can say what and how they feel, but God forbid you should return the response in the same manner in which you received it. If you did answer them the same way, you would be looked down upon as the unprofessional one, lowering yourself to their level.

Respect, honor and integrity is a lost form in our world today. No one should be spoken down to, not even your PM (who is paid) deserves to be spoken to that way. I read so often "your PM gets paid to take it."

I'm sorry the $3.50 per home rate (more or less) is NOT enough money for anyone to use profanity or speak in a derogatroy manner. This man should be put on notice unless he calms down, puts his complaints in writing and yes complaints should go through management, that the HOA board will not deal with him. IMHO
DaneC (California)
Posts: 210
Posted:
Interesting - your initial post was requesting assistance about an agressive male homeowner, with a mention about - and "tell her" to move her boat(yes, she was in violation).

Then in a more recent post - Her boat, trailer and SUV are long and violate the CCR's. She is wealthy and couldn't care less about
the fines.

So is "wealthy her" also a problem, or does she pay the fines?
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
My point is/was that expensive, accumulative fines don't
budge her behavior. She writes a check and then repeats behavior in
4-6 weeks. The only problem her wealth provides is that it doesn't
hit her in the pocketbook as most fines are meant to do.
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
thank you.......I agree. Two wrongs don't make a right.
NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Jackie,

Have your attorney write a dunning letter about how, if she continues, with her abusive behavior towards the board and other neighbors the HOA will have to take action. It may be worth the $75 or so it will cost.

We were a little afraid to do this at first, our abusive guy paid the HOA $1,800 last year for copies of documents. We didn't think he would stop at anything. It is going on 3 weeks today, that our attorney wrote a letter, and not a peep from him.
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
good idea.....thanks
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Jackie:

I agree with one of the last posters, just because you volunteered does not mean it is open game to verbally abuse and harass you. I would consult with your association's attorney and see your options. Document and save everything, if you feel it is borderline harassment or makes you feel uncomfortable talk to your local police department. I did that after I received two "anonymous" letters at my house that were not nice. I pointed out the culprit, the police talked to them and I haven't had issues since. He may think he has a legal right to do this, he does not, and a good talking to by one of the boys in blue might be what the doctor ordered.
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Brad,
Every HOA association has "one" it seems. And your advice is well taken. He talks to "the women (only)" as if there still is slavery,
and women aren't allow to vote. I appreciate everyone's suggestions and sharing of war stories. I think the BOD and myself are well prepared to handle any future temper tantrums. Again, thanks to all.
Jackie
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Mike,
I agree that the P.M. should talk with him when he goes off but NEVER, EVER cancel a meeting because of his or anyone elses rude or loud mouth. The other residents are entitled to the meeting and by stopping it, he then wins. Call the Sheriff or local authority. He will get embarassed or maybe even given a warning to behave himself. Do not put up with this. His threats are just his lack of communicating in a productive manner. But tell me why you are not enforcing this boat in the yard?
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Donna - I'm not the original poster. I would refer this to Jackie..
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Thanks Mike, Will do
SusanJ3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NancyD1 on 10/16/2007 12:54 PM
Jackie,

Have your attorney write a dunning letter about how, if she continues, with her abusive behavior towards the board and other neighbors the HOA will have to take action. It may be worth the $75 or so it will cost.

We were a little afraid to do this at first, our abusive guy paid the HOA $1,800 last year for copies of documents. We didn't think he would stop at anything. It is going on 3 weeks today, that our attorney wrote a letter, and not a peep from him.

Okay, so your HOA made 1800.00 for documents that the abuser can legally have. I'd lov to be able to pay for documents but our BoD won't give access.

I don't doubt that the guy is a problem, but why is paying 1800.00 to the HOA one of them? What is he looking for?
JackieB (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
good advice. Thanks.
MelissaM2 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 13
Posted:
hello, all... what if your assoc doesn't have a PM? We're a small rural HOA with just a board & officers. I'm still questioning my judgement about becoming president because we have one of these adorable characters who is threatening to sue the association if we don't retract the results of an election and do it over (see my post today "Can a property owner sue his own assoc?" It's really nice to know I'm not alone!!! I feel for you JackieB, and any insight you can give me would be HUGELY appreciated.... thanks!
Melissa

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