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MarietteV (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Hello,
Thanks for being able to pose this question. I am brand-new to the HOA board in the position of treasurer. My husband has been writing an HOA blog and newsletter for the past few years. So this rather surprising thing happened to me and I want your opinion about what is appropriate in this case. The HOA Board president sent an email to the board about and with a picture of a fallen tree. I mentioned to my husband that a tree had fallen on that part of the property. He asked for the picture so he could publish it. I had already deleted the email so I told him to call the President. He did not hear back, but when I went to the next board meeting the President told me that I was to to share any information that was sent via email to the board only. I was a bit stunned and think I can tell the difference between information that is privilege and that is not. My husband ended up getting picture from a neighbor. Is it true that there is a rule that says I cannot share anything that has been emailed to the Board members only?
Thank you for your help.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
MarietteV, a few observations:

-- The Board President should not be attempting to conduct business by email. Whatever issue has arisen concerning this tree should go on the agenda of a properly noticed meeting of the Board. Newbies: "Properly noticed" means the membership is told when and where the meeting is; the agenda; and so on; all per the governing documents and state law. As you may know, California law is /very/ strict about this.

-- I would try to let go this little upbraiding by the President. In my opinion she is not entirely wrong. Folks can often battle about what is privileged and what is not. But is it worth it?

-- I think a polite response saying you won't share email communications (among the board) with other members in the future is fine. You can follow this with something like, "On another note, and meant with the greatest respect and intended in the best interests of the HOA, could we please not discuss by email non-emergency topics? I believe California law and our governing documents require nearly all topics to wait for a board meeting (open or executive session)."
ChrisE8
Posts: 454
Posted:
Generally a director can share board materials only with the board unless specifically authorized to share them further; there is a general duty of confidentiality. Privilege is not relevant for this.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Here's some discussion about HOA Boards and confidentiality (and privilege et cetera) in California: https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Confidentiality

Here's some discussion of how in general, California HOA Board meetings are not to occur by email: https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Email-Meetings

Of course I doubt the OP caused any harm. Her ego may be hurt a bit, especially when the President appears to have perpetrated a whole different violation of the law.
MarietteV (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you. All very good and informative feedback and I appreciate it.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Good for you, Mariette, for being willing to serve on your Board. As other note, there's no "rule" or "law" that email among board members cannot be shared with members (owners) if not marked confidential. But it's best not to. I'd li eaves the Prez' s criticism alone and agree she's not entirely wrong.

Also as other note, emails among directors should be very limited in CA. A fallen tree is a meeting agenda matter that the Board needs to consider at a duly-noticed meeting UNLESS it's some sort of emergency. A quorum of the Board should not discuss this outside of an open meeting in CA. Why did the prez email directors about it? Was immediate Board action needed?

To help with your education, visit davis-stirling.com and scroll down their Main Index to read about topics that interest you. It's complied by a CA HOA law firm.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/30/2020 10:12 AM
Good for you, Mariette, for being willing to serve on your Board. As other note, there's no "rule" or "law" that email among board members cannot be shared with members (owners) if not marked confidential. But it's best not to. I'd li eaves the Prez' s criticism alone and agree she's not entirely wrong.

Also as other note, emails among directors should be very limited in CA. A fallen tree is a meeting agenda matter that the Board needs to consider at a duly-noticed meeting UNLESS it's some sort of emergency. A quorum of the Board should not discuss this outside of an open meeting in CA. Why did the prez email directors about it? Was immediate Board action needed?

To help with your education, visit davis-stirling.com and scroll down their Main Index to read about topics that interest you. It's complied by a CA HOA law firm.

California laws are really that strict?

I can't imagine leaving a fallen tree for weeks because you have to have a board meeting to talk about it.

Texas has an open meeting law as well, but general business like removing a fallen tree can be handled via email. Action taken outside the meeting is summarized at the next meeting. At one point the statute did require an open meeting for everything but it was tweaked in the next legislative session because it was just hard to get things done.

MarietteV (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Just to clarify about the fallen tree. It was removed immediately and no Board meeting was called to discuss the matter. My question pertained to the fact that I shared the information when it came from an email that was sent to the Board members only, and was I out of line doing so. I think what I could or should have done is to ask if the information was confidential and acted accordingly. I am pleased with the responses I received. They were helpful and supportive and pointed me to some other sources to learn more. Thank you all very much.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 10/30/2020 12:22 PM

Texas has an open meeting law as well, but general business like removing a fallen tree can be handled via email. Action taken outside the meeting is summarized at the next meeting. At one point the statute did require an open meeting for everything but it was tweaked in the next legislative session because it was just hard to get things done.
From my reading of California law, things could absolutely go down in California the way BarbaraT1 describes. I think it just depends. I think the thread is, as is common and no one's fault, a bit light on the specifics here. Yet at this point, and with Barbara's post I think all bases have been covered.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 10/30/2020 12:22 PM
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/30/2020 10:12 AM
Good for you, Mariette, for being willing to serve on your Board. As other note, there's no "rule" or "law" that email among board members cannot be shared with members (owners) if not marked confidential. But it's best not to. I'd li eaves the Prez' s criticism alone and agree she's not entirely wrong.

Also as other note, emails among directors should be very limited in CA. A fallen tree is a meeting agenda matter that the Board needs to consider at a duly-noticed meeting UNLESS it's some sort of emergency. A quorum of the Board should not discuss this outside of an open meeting in CA. Why did the prez email directors about it? Was immediate Board action needed?

To help with your education, visit davis-stirling.com and scroll down their Main Index to read about topics that interest you. It's complied by a CA HOA law firm.


California laws are really that strict?

I can't imagine leaving a fallen tree for weeks because you have to have a board meeting to talk about it.

Texas has an open meeting law as well, but general business like removing a fallen tree can be handled via email. Action taken outside the meeting is summarized at the next meeting. At one point the statute did require an open meeting for everything but it was tweaked in the next legislative session because it was just hard to get things done.


Action Without A Meeting is standard in almost all HOA's throughout the United States, including California. A few years ago, the California legislature changed the rules solely based on Boards not doing what was required and that was when action between meetings was taken it is required to be placed into the next meeting's minutes. They weren't doing it, even after being repeatedly warned. So, AWAM can no longer be done unless deemed an emergency.

To the poster, there is no harm in sharing that email with others.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
As a property manager, would have the tree removed after notifying the Board. Our job is to help maintain the property.

Seriously, you're going to call a Board meeting to make that kind of decision. Do you also call a meeting when a light bulb needs changing and what expense category to place it into to?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yes Johnc77 you do call and have a meeting with the BOARD to discuss such items. The Property manager works for the HOA board. Which shouldn't tell the Property manager to take action unless approved by them. Otherwise I think the Property Manager is running a bit "carte blanche" for my taste.

Former HOA President
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/30/2020 2:24 PM
Yes Johnc77 you do call and have a meeting with the BOARD to discuss such items. The Property manager works for the HOA board. Which shouldn't tell the Property manager to take action unless approved by them. Otherwise I think the Property Manager is running a bit "carte blanche" for my taste.

WRONG!!

The manager works for the association, MOT the Board.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Uhm... The association is the HOA which is represented by the board... Did I miss a "they or them" situation again?

Former HOA President
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
This past Monday, we had some very sever winds come through, essentially Category 2 type winds. There were a number of tree issues throughout most of 42 properties. All were cleaned up by Thursday and not one Board meeting was called. These tree issues were mostly safety issues. Through signed contracts we have specific pre-authorizations to handle certain things to within limits. More importantly we have approved annual budgets that include repairs that have already been approved.

My former HOA, we had 7 entry exit gates which used a total of 11 gate operators. If one broke or had a issue, we never ever called a board meeting to fix. Repairs and replacement had already been budgeted, either operational or reserve. If a pool heater or filter broke it was fixed. Our Board meetings were handling administrative issues. We had a Finance committee handle all the details of a budget.

It was one well oiled machine, until politics got mixed in.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
My error, Mariette, I incorrectly assumed that the president was seeking Board approval or a Board decision when she sent the email about the felled tree. But it sounds like Mariette's HOA has a protocol in place to handle such events.

For Barbara: say, there was no protocol or procedure in place. If the tree needed immediate attention, the Board could call an emergency meeting as John77 points out and decide on a course of action. This meeting could take place via email in this case in CA. If the tree wasn't an emergency, there was no procedure in place, and the Board didn't want to wait till the next scheduled regular meeting, they could call a special meeting with 4-days notice to owners to decide on a course of action.

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/30/2020 5:55 PM
My error, Mariette, I incorrectly assumed that the president was seeking Board approval or a Board decision when she sent the email about the felled tree. But it sounds like Mariette's HOA has a protocol in place to handle such events.

For Barbara: say, there was no protocol or procedure in place. If the tree needed immediate attention, the Board could call an emergency meeting as John77 points out and decide on a course of action. This meeting could take place via email in this case in CA. If the tree wasn't an emergency, there was no procedure in place, and the Board didn't want to wait till the next scheduled regular meeting, they could call a special meeting with 4-days notice to owners to decide on a course of action.


I'm curious, why do you have a budget? You have already allocated the funds to handle such issues, why the meeting to decide what to do. If a sprinkler breaks because of a tree root do you call a meeting to fix? In all my budgets I have a line item for irrigation repairs. If funds run low, I one of the agenda items might be re-allocating funds from one line item to another. That is administrative.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC77 on 10/30/2020 6:42 PM
If a sprinkler breaks because of a tree root do you call a meeting to fix?
Non sequitur.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/30/2020 10:06 AM
Her ego may be hurt a bit, especially when the President appears to have perpetrated a whole different violation of the law.

Could you tell us all what violation of law did the president perpetrate?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC77 on 10/30/2020 7:18 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 10/30/2020 10:06 AM
Her ego may be hurt a bit, especially when the President appears to have perpetrated a whole different violation of the law.


Could you tell us all what violation of law did the president perpetrate?
Non sequitur.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
In my communities the MC completes some repairs, if they gave provided broad direction to do so, and within specified cost regimes.

We also, without meeting formally, approve “one off” discrete actions like replanting lost trees, repair of items ... but always follow up with approvals at board meetings.

We also discuss topics via email - as a matter of consistency, and visibility, I prefer this - no decisions of import are made this way, though. Generally, if we can hold until the next board meeting, we do. If we must act without a meeting, it is clear, unanimous and in writing.

I have found monthly board meetings to be more routine and helpful to process flow than quarterly.

Our number one goal - always - is transparency - and FS720 makes this pretty easy to insist on and support. Almost never need exec session.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
The ISSUE was if board members are allowed to pass on information contained in a board email - without permission to the general membership (No matter the subject’)

My opinion is No.

Best to tell hubby to take his own picture ( or gather his own news) You are a board member and should respect the confidentiality of board only emails.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueW6 on 11/02/2020 6:29 AM
The ISSUE was if board members are allowed to pass on information contained in a board email - without permission to the general membership (No matter the subject’)

My opinion is No.

Best to tell hubby to take his own picture ( or gather his own news) You are a board member and should respect the confidentiality of board only emails.

So, why aren't they allowed?
MarietteV (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
You are correct. That was the issue. Thanks for the tip.

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