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DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Our Declarations have a section that calls for the creation of an Architectural Review Committee - which was done a couple of years ago - and tasks the ARC with creating a document of "Design Standards and Guidelines," which has not been done.

The next section of the Declarations is several pages long, and outlines very specific design standards - landscape restrictions, deck and patio restrictions, etc. It even forbids clothe lines, that is how specific it is.

My understanding is that it is common to create a Guidelines document that is separate from the Declarations/Covenants, but I have also read that those guidelines must be consistent with the Declarations. So my question is, how can we go about writing Guidelines, when everything has already been specified in the Declarations?

For example, the Declarations specify patios must be brick paver. It would appear to me that the Guidelines can't then specify, say, that patios can be brick pavers or stamped concrete.

I'm still new and learning, and I asked a similar question a few months ago; before I learned more about this process. For please forgive me for asking the same question twice.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Here is the Clause establishing the ARC:

The Architectural Board shall have exclusive jurisdiction over all original construction, modifications, additions or
alterations made on or to all existing improvements and the open space, if any, appurtenant
thereto, on all property within the Planned Community, including landscaping and grading. It
shall prepare and, on behalf of the Declarant or Executive Board, shall promulgate, design and
develop guidelines and application and review procedures, all as part of The XXXXXXX
Subdivision Design Standards and Guidelines ("The XXXXXX Subdivision
Standards") and may establish reasonable fees for review. The XXXXXX
Subdivision Standards shall incorporate all restrictions and guidelines relating to development and
construction contained in this Declaration as well as restrictions and guidelines with respect to
location of structures upon property, foundations, size, length, design of structures, driveway and
parking requirements and landscaping requirements
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
DavidG45, please quote verbatim all parts of the Declaration's "specific design standards" that give the ARC discretion in applying a standard. Look for the word "may" in these sections, and this will likely be a rule where the ARC has "discretion."

It is these sections that tend to cause disputes that land in court. If you post these sections, I for one can comment further and with a lot more intelligence.
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/29/2020 7:44 AM
DavidG45, please quote verbatim all parts of the Declaration's "specific design standards" that give the ARC discretion in applying a standard. Look for the word "may" in these sections, and this will likely be a rule where the ARC has "discretion."

It is these sections that tend to cause disputes that land in court. If you post these sections, I for one can comment further and with a lot more intelligence.

I'm not sure I understand the question. The Declarations standards are very specific and don't appear to allow for any discretion. For example,

"All driveways and parking areas shall have a hard, dustless surface, such as asphalt, concrete, brick, stone or such similar material as may be approved by the Architectural Board. All patio material must be concrete pavers."

So if we were to create a design guidelines manual, I don't see any way to, say, allow stamped concrete. So I'm questioning what use there is to a separate guidelines document when the Declarations themselves are so specific.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 10/29/2020 7:00 AM
Here is the Clause establishing the ARC:

[snippage][The ARC]
shall prepare and, on behalf of the Declarant or Executive Board, shall promulgate, design and
develop guidelines and application and review procedures, all as part of The XXXXXXX
Subdivision Design Standards and Guidelines ("The XXXXXX Subdivision
Standards") and may establish reasonable fees for review.


The "may" above means the ARC has the option to charge fees for review. (These would be fees related to management's role in the review. The volunteer ARC members should not be paid.) The "may" above means the ARC has the discretion to charge reasonable fees or not charge such fees.

If there are no other sections that have discretion, then the standards yada are as given in the Declaration. AFAIC, all the ARC need do is publish a single page that says, "The design and development guidelines shall be as given in sections ____ of the Declaration. Signed, ARC"
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 10/29/2020 8:05 AM
"All driveways and parking areas shall have a hard, dustless surface, such as asphalt, concrete, brick, stone or such similar material as may be approved by the Architectural Board. All patio material must be concrete pavers."

So if we were to create a design guidelines manual, I don't see any way to, say, allow stamped concrete. So I'm questioning what use there is to a separate guidelines document when the Declarations themselves are so specific.

Oops; bad on me. The above is clearly an example of a Declaration requirement that involves ARC discretion. The "may" in the "as may be approved..." part is a flag that the ARC has discretion and needs to print up its own guidance on this particular subject.

If I were an Owner there, and there were no ARC created guidelines, I would dispute that the covenants prohibit stamped concreted. For one, stamped concrete is a material that is similar to concrete. If the ARC publishes no guidelines, from my reading the courts will frown on an ARC refusal to allow stamped concrete.

Phrases like "similar material" are vague and ambiguous and will lead to disputes. The chances of dispute diminish if the ARC says what similar material it will accept.

It's a tricky subject and very few HOA laypeople are able to grasp this.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our attorney advised us to have the BOD act as the ARC because in the end, it is BOD that decides, not the ARC.

Personally I dislike guidelines/handbooks as they often contradict the Covenants.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Since homeowner tastes in color, material and so on tend to change over tine, I think it may be best to write the standards in such a way that the committee can use its discretion while ensuring the primary goal is maintained. The goal should be to ensure exterior changes are in harmony with the association's original look and design. That doesn't mean cookie cutter houses, but you might not want to have a block where three houses have 6 foot privacy fences, of varying colors of material (some wood, some vinyl, one is white and the others are gray).

Why not start with polling the homeowners and seeing what their preferences are? If enough people respond,you might get an idea of what seems to fit the community or not,or where an exception might be made and why.

For example, people might have hated free standing sheds when the community was first established, but now times have changed along with the style and size of the sheds that may enable them to be allowed. Form there, your standards might state the shed can't be place in the front of the house, maximum dimensions may not exceed X, must be placed on a cement pad, etc.

By the way if you think this part of the Declaration isn't workable, you should be able to amend it with homeowner approval and working with your association attoe. Check your documents to see how that's done, then consult the attorney to see if you're on the right track as to what discretion the ARC committee really has.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I also agree with John - a committee is great for initial reviews and making recommendations to the board, but the board is ultimately responsible for managing the community, so let it have the last word on approving exterior change requests. It should be chartering the committee's and appointing the members, and all of those people can change over time (along with their tastes).

If you prepare the standards so they're easy to u derstand, with appeal rights, most homeowners shouldn't have an issue with compliance and continuity has a better chance of happening.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/29/2020 9:27 AM
Our attorney advised us to have the BOD act as the ARC because in the end, it is BOD that decides, not the ARC.

Personally I dislike guidelines/handbooks as they often contradict the Covenants.

I think part of the problem here is they combined driveways and patios into a single paragraph. In this particular case we want to expand the choices for patios to include stamped concrete; but the single sentence is very specific:

"All patio material must be concrete pavers."

So I'm not sure if we can do that in guidelines without first updating the Declarations. And, unfortunately, there are probably twenty other examples where we could like to change something that is very specifically written.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 10/29/2020 10:00 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/29/2020 9:27 AM
Our attorney advised us to have the BOD act as the ARC because in the end, it is BOD that decides, not the ARC.

Personally I dislike guidelines/handbooks as they often contradict the Covenants.


I think part of the problem here is they combined driveways and patios into a single paragraph. In this particular case we want to expand the choices for patios to include stamped concrete; but the single sentence is very specific:

"All patio material must be concrete pavers."

So I'm not sure if we can do that in guidelines without first updating the Declarations. And, unfortunately, there are probably twenty other examples where we could like to change something that is very specifically written.

That Covenant is crystal clear and as it is a Covenant (PIA or not), it must be voted on
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
David,

Do all current patios only have pavers?

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