Turning over enclosed porches to owners....

Hi everyone,

56 unit condo complex in Ct built in 1984, documents updated in 2001. We have 13 buildings that house mainly quads, each with an enclosed porch. At this point our documents state that the association is responsible for maintaining the porch interiors, our board (of which I am a member) would like to now turn the porch interiors over to the owners, ie painting of the interiors would be done by them and not the association.

This would take a change in our documents.

Any of you have any thoughts?

Dana

Nancy,

You bring up some very valid points.

Some of the the porches are over/under, most are not.

Here is what happened so far, over the past few paint cycles some of the porches were not painted because the board said, "Get your stuff off or we won't paint." The owners said to not bother painting their porch. (I wasn't on the board then.)

Now, there are some members of the board saying to turn the porches over to the owners. I agree with you that it isn't that easy.

We are now vinyl siding buildings; porch floors and joists are being repaired along with the main entry ways (small deck areas) outside of the porch. Porch windows are being replaced along with the porch entry doors.

If we make the porch the owners responsibility then who pays for the floor and joist replacement in the future? And who is to stop owners from painting the interiors pink?

The majority of the board wants to fix the porches this last time and then cut them loose to owners.

We have a great lawyer and I will ask for his view.

DanaB1: Presently your documents state that the association is to maintain the porch interiors. I am not familiar with an area which is attached to the unit--limited common area-- but is to be maintained by the association.

I can anticipate all sorts of problems in wanting to change this area to be the responsibility of owners. It sounds like the association does not want the headache of repair/maintenance any longer, but you have to make it
'attractive' for the owner to want to take this on.

- would the owner's R.E. tax be increased due to their 'now-ownership' of the enclosed porch/room
- without the association being responsible for the enclosed porches, would the assessment fee be reduced--would capital reserve fund be reduced
- once the enclosed porch is the owners' responsibility/maintenance does that give them the right to modify/change it to ex.; added bedroom/study/den

IMO, you certainly have to investigate with your local municipality for tax purposes, as well as learning if this change can be be made at all.

"RobertR1
Posts:569

10/14/2007 9:41 PM Quote Reply
Dana, If you are going to deed over the porches to the owners, you will need to modify each unit description, each deed has to be modified as the square feet will change."

Robert,
The deed is a good point and I will have to look but I think that each owner already has the porch area included in their tax base.

"Many others will have better ideas but the proposal to change your documents seems the wrong way to go."

Robert,
The way our documents are now worded we have no choice to but change them if we are now going to make the owners responsible for the porches.

"PaulM
Posts:643

10/15/2007 9:25 AM Quote Reply
DanaB1: Presently your documents state that the association is to maintain the porch interiors. I am not familiar with an area which is attached to the unit--limited common area-- but is to be maintained by the association."

Paul,

When I get home tonight I will scan and paste the document to this webpage.

"I can anticipate all sorts of problems in wanting to change this area to be the responsibility of owners. It sounds like the association does not want the headache of repair/maintenance any longer, but you have to make it
'attractive' for the owner to want to take this on.

- would the owner's R.E. tax be increased due to their 'now-ownership' of the enclosed porch/room"

No

"- without the association being responsible for the enclosed porches, would the assessment fee be reduced--would capital reserve fund be reduced"

No

"- once the enclosed porch is the owners' responsibility/maintenance does that give them the right to modify/change it to ex.; added bedroom/study/den"

Funny you should mention this, a few years back the VP wanted to replace his storm windows on the porch with better ones and knock out the wall to the interior and make his porch part of his dining room. He sold the board on the idea and said that all the association needed was a "hold harmless" clause. The treasurer transformed her porch along with 2 other unit owners.

I was against that from the start (I wasn't on the board at the time.)Talk about opening a can of worms. Plus any change like that needs to be filed in the town records. Now that I'm on the board I'm still pushing the majority to get all this owner changed items listed in the town books.

Oh, and the "hold harmless"? Our new insurance agent says that those aren't worth the paper they are written on and that they never hold up in court.

"IMO, you certainly have to investigate with your local municipality for tax purposes, as well as learning if this change can be be made at all."

"I" don't plan on making any changes without our lawyer's opinion.

The VP is a smooth talker and he has "sold" the majority of the board a bill of goods many times in the past.

He tells them just enough to sell them on an idea without giving them all the evidence.

I won't even get into the satellite dish' installed on common property. Want to guess who was the first person to want one??????????

Thanks,

Dana

:-) It's always good to vent now and then.

Dana: fine, feel free to vent anytime.

However, since neither the capital reserve fund nor the assessment fee will remain as is even though the asssociation will not now assume responsibility for the porches, what is the incentive for owners to accept this change to the official documents?

A vote of all unit owners will have to be taken and, if passed, it will need to be filed officially. What does the deed state as far as ownership of the porch? Is it part of your overall ownership of the unit, and if heat/air is included in this space, is it part of the total sq. footage?

It sounds like you/Board need to sit down with some professionals-- realtor/township/land development--for some definite advice here. Though you are working with a lawyer, in the end, it is the Board who is responsible to have everything done legally and according to township code, specs and appropriate deeded-owned property. The Board members, not the lawyer, will have to be the ones to own up to a bad situation if this doesn't go smoothly.