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AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
From the Washington Post Today:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/racist-housing-covenants/2020/10/21/9d262738-0261-11eb-8879-7663b816bfa5_story.html#comments-wrapper

I did not know racially restrictive covenants were still so prevalent. Of course these covenants have no legal force today. But afaic, they should be formally stricken from what is recorded at a county clerk's.

I remember sixty years ago my parents bought an old farmhouse in a subdivision about-to-be-built on what was then still farmland. The developer and realtors initially put a sign up, to sell lots, noting "restrictive covenants" applied. If one reads the article above, one will see that this was code, designed to keep out certain demographics. Where I grew up, "restrictive covenants" meant 'Blacks and Jewish people need not apply for purchase.' My parents "made" the developer get rid of the "restrictive covenants" part. A close relative being a partner in the biggest law firm in the state, and having gone on public record as wanting to get rid of these covenants, may have played a role. The neighborhood filled with Jewish families, both blue collar and professionals. Twenty-four of 26 homes were owned by Jewish families. At the time and as a kid, it seemed strange to me that the neighborhoods on all sides were all white but religion-wise, just the opposite of my subdivision: They were nearly all-Christian. Now I understand.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
In the city where I grew up, there was a neighborhood that excluded Catholics as well - this was in the early 60s prior to passage of the Fair Housing Act. Realtors were quite open about telling their clients about this, and I remember my parents talking about it when they were house hunting. As a result, I grew up in a neighborhood that was about 60% Jewish, 30& Catholic, and 10% "we don't care about these things". The adults were mostly business owners and professionals of one sort or another, kids all played together. Public and parochial schools within walking distance. Great neighborhood, and of course no HOA. :-)

Oddly enough the open discrimination elsewhere probably resulted in a community that was more broad-minded than others. Not that I recommend going back to those days...
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Unless some state laws say otherwise, removing the restrictions would require amending the covenants following the same procedure as any other amendment. Unless someone in the association is going to put some work into it, it won't happen.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
There is a cover page that is supposed to be on all CCRs that was put out by HUD that handles these situations.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 10/22/2020 11:57 AM
Unless some state laws say otherwise, removing the restrictions would require amending the covenants following the same procedure as any other amendment. Unless someone in the association is going to put some work into it, it won't happen.

To comply with fair housing laws, ours did not have to get owner approval to change the by laws. A simple resolution was added and recorded at the county, which amended the by laws to be in compliance with Federal Law.

Which makes sense. Following Federal law can't be left up to the members of the HOA to vote on.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Government-Code-129561#axzz345Aur4td
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I maintain there is no need to remove "illegal" restrictions as they are just that. Illegal thus they not need be paid attention to.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/23/2020 9:32 AM
I maintain there is no need to remove "illegal" restrictions as they are just that. Illegal thus they not need be paid attention to.

Might not be necessary, but it's good optics for the community to vote to remove the language.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 10/23/2020 10:28 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/23/2020 9:32 AM
I maintain there is no need to remove "illegal" restrictions as they are just that. Illegal thus they not need be paid attention to.


Might not be necessary, but it's good optics for the community to vote to remove the language.

I agree. That said, cost to do so has to play a role.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/23/2020 9:32 AM
I maintain there is no need to remove "illegal" restrictions as they are just that. Illegal thus they not need be paid attention to.

Nevertheless they can be confusing. Our governing documents are so decrepit that about a third of the CC&Rs and the Bylaws have ben superceded by new and updated laws. By amending the documents to remove ancient text that no longer applicable or binding, the chance that someone will be confused by what's written there is greatly reduced. It gets tiring to explain over and over again that the part of our CC&Rs that say, "Each residence shall be used for residential purposes only for occupancy by a single family which would include immediate members of the family," is not enforceable as written. And that's literally in Section 1 of the CC&Rs. There are a dozen other instances where what's written is no longer relevant because laws have changed.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Geno

I agree. That said, cost has to play a role. Also if it will take the typical 2/3rd's of all owners to approve Covenant changes, one has to ask is this doable when some do not even know the time of day?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Absolutely. I used to doubt there were a lot of people like that but then I moved into an HOA.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
All that is needed is to place the cover page, the link I provided and have that placed on top and recorded with your CCRs. Remember, this is federal law and it supersedes everything. There is no need to amend and remove language.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC77 on 10/23/2020 1:58 PM
All that is needed is to place the cover page, the link I provided and have that placed on top and recorded with your CCRs. Remember, this is federal law and it supersedes everything. There is no need to amend and remove language.

John C7

Would this "document" not have to be specific to the associations docs such as referring to the exact location in the docs and the required change? Meaning I would hate to see an "ad hoc" group of volunteers write such versus an attorney doing such and that brings us back to cost.

Our docs would be a lot easier if all reference to the Declarant were removed and we got an estimate of about $5K for an attorney to do so. We passed.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
No, CCRS don't have to be amend and the cover sheet does not apply to any specific HOA. It is federal law and as we all know federal law supersedes all in the hierarchy of documents.

If you want to amend, or the proper terminology would be re-state your documents, by all means, knock yourself out. I would only recommend if you are changing substantial parts of the documents AND will have enough support to pass in the community.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC77 on 10/23/2020 3:58 PM
No, CCRS don't have to be amend and the cover sheet does not apply to any specific HOA. It is federal law and as we all know federal law supersedes all in the hierarchy of documents.

If you want to amend, or the proper terminology would be re-state your documents, by all means, knock yourself out. I would only recommend if you are changing substantial parts of the documents AND will have enough support to pass in the community.

Our docs cannot be the only ones to state that the 51% required to change by laws does not apply to changes to comply with state or Federal Law.

We did a resolution amending the by-laws and filed it at the county.

No community support or even involvement necessary.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/24/2020 10:41 AM
Posted By JohnC77 on 10/23/2020 3:58 PM
No, CCRS don't have to be amend and the cover sheet does not apply to any specific HOA. It is federal law and as we all know federal law supersedes all in the hierarchy of documents.

If you want to amend, or the proper terminology would be re-state your documents, by all means, knock yourself out. I would only recommend if you are changing substantial parts of the documents AND will have enough support to pass in the community.


Our docs cannot be the only ones to state that the 51% required to change by laws does not apply to changes to comply with state or Federal Law.

We did a resolution amending the by-laws and filed it at the county.

No community support or even involvement necessary.

I posted the link to the government code. I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC77 on 10/24/2020 11:27 AM

I posted the link to the government code. I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink.
What you linked applies only to California. Furthermore, it does not literally delete the discriminatory covenant. As others observed, the optics are better if the words with discriminatory language are removed and a new Declaration et cetera is filed.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC77 on 10/24/2020 11:27 AM
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/24/2020 10:41 AM
Posted By JohnC77 on 10/23/2020 3:58 PM
No, CCRS don't have to be amend and the cover sheet does not apply to any specific HOA. It is federal law and as we all know federal law supersedes all in the hierarchy of documents.

If you want to amend, or the proper terminology would be re-state your documents, by all means, knock yourself out. I would only recommend if you are changing substantial parts of the documents AND will have enough support to pass in the community.


Our docs cannot be the only ones to state that the 51% required to change by laws does not apply to changes to comply with state or Federal Law.

We did a resolution amending the by-laws and filed it at the county.

No community support or even involvement necessary.


I posted the link to the government code. I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink.

I am not in California. As I said, it is highly doubtful to me that our HOA was the only one with the foresight to have language in the procedures required for by laws to be changed to include that these procedures gaining owner approval need not occur to change the by laws to comply with state or Federal Law.

A Resolution was all that was needed. The board said hey, we're changing the by laws to comply with federal law. It was approved by the whole board, of course, and filed with the county becoming part of our published docs.

No owners were solicited for their opinion, much less a vote.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Federal law, which what HUD is, supersedes whatever is in one's governing docs. You can't discriminate EVEN your governing docs allowed you to.

And in Palm Springs area we have plenty that still do.

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