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MalakA (Virginia)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Hello,

In Virginia, what is the maximum fee per year that can be accessed for parking that violates the HOA? And how often can it be re-assessed?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The fine shouldn't exceed the expense of the process. Meaning the fine should be the price the HOA paid for the towing etc... This is a PUNITIVE expense/action. A HOA is typically a non-profit (not charitable) that spends as much as it collects. So why enforce a "Profit" out of a violation? It should just be the expense the HOA incurred in damages for correcting the violation.

Former HOA President
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
The amount we can charge for "fines" and frequency are spelled out in our condo docs. In our case first fine is $50 and everyday we can impose a new fine. I believe the reason for fines is to punish the person for not following the rule.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/29/2020 6:51 PM
The fine shouldn't exceed the expense of the process. Meaning the fine should be the price the HOA paid for the towing etc... This is a PUNITIVE expense/action. A HOA is typically a non-profit (not charitable) that spends as much as it collects. So why enforce a "Profit" out of a violation? It should just be the expense the HOA incurred in damages for correcting the violation.

So, what fees does a HOA pay to have a car towed. The fees are paid solely by the owner of the vehicle to get their vehicle back!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Malak,

Expecting that you are living within an HOA (vs. COA - aka condominium), per Property Owners' Association Act:

$50 per single offense
$10 per day for a continuing offense not to exceed $900

This would be in addition to legal fees.
Additionally, these charges are treated as assessments for the purposes of liens and foreclosure options.

Boards seem to have the discretion to determine if (in your case) a parking issue is a single offense or a continuing offense.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/29/2020 6:51 PM

The fine shouldn't exceed the expense of the process.

This is not the case in VA. See link I provided in earlier posting.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MalakA on 09/29/2020 6:35 PM
Hello,

In Virginia, . . . And how often can it be re-assessed?

Failed to answer this part of the question.

For single offenses there doesn't seem to be a limit.

In your situation of parking violations, it's possible that a $50 penalty per violation could be done.
Hence, the HOA could (technically) hit you daily or more with no limit.

If the Association sees it as a continuing violation, then up to 90 days. However, the statute and case law is unclear if said violation is resolved and restarted (say a few days later) if a new 90 day timeline starts or not.

MalakA (Virginia)
Posts: 10
Posted:
So actually, they can't tow any vehicle. Our streets are public (this is Virginia), and you can't tow a vehicle on public streets. What they can do is assess fines for the offense. What I don't know is how the fines would work. There is a legal maximum of $900, but is that per year, or what? It's like $10 a day for ongoing offenses, to a maximum of $900. Is that every year? Is that life time?
MalakA (Virginia)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Hello,

What legal fees? Like let's say they fine me and I just pay it, then what? What would the legal fee even be, as long as I just pay it? Thank you for the link. Yes, I have read that.

Malak
MalakA (Virginia)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Yes, that's my point. It seems to be very unclear, and every lawyer has a different answer.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MalakA on 04/10/2021 2:34 PM
Yes, that's my point. It seems to be very unclear, and every lawyer has a different answer.

And you have paid for an attorney to review YOUR DOCS and tell you what? You are shopping for answers you want not the correct answers.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/29/2020 6:51 PM
The fine shouldn't exceed the expense of the process. Meaning the fine should be the price the HOA paid for the towing etc... This is a PUNITIVE expense/action. A HOA is typically a non-profit (not charitable) that spends as much as it collects. So why enforce a "Profit" out of a violation? It should just be the expense the HOA incurred in damages for correcting the violation.

I disagree. A fine is, by definition, supposed to be punitive. If the HOA is only trying to recoup their expenses, they should call it a fee. I do agree that normally a non-profit should not make a profit but that's a matter of budgeting. The profit is determined by the year-end bottom line, not each transaction.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BenA2 on 04/10/2021 7:19 PM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/29/2020 6:51 PM
The fine shouldn't exceed the expense of the process. Meaning the fine should be the price the HOA paid for the towing etc... This is a PUNITIVE expense/action. A HOA is typically a non-profit (not charitable) that spends as much as it collects. So why enforce a "Profit" out of a violation? It should just be the expense the HOA incurred in damages for correcting the violation.


I disagree. A fine is, by definition, supposed to be punitive. If the HOA is only trying to recoup their expenses, they should call it a fee. I do agree that normally a non-profit should not make a profit but that's a matter of budgeting. The profit is determined by the year-end bottom line, not each transaction.

I wouldn't waste time trying to explain. This goes WAAAY over the person's head.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MalakA on 04/10/2021 2:30 PM

What I don't know is how the fines would work. There is a legal maximum of $900, but is that per year, or what? It's like $10 a day for ongoing offenses, to a maximum of $900. Is that every year? Is that life time?

The point of monetary penalties is to attempt someone to comply with the governing documents.

At some point, if monetary penalties don't work, the Association will consider bringing in an attorney. If this occurs, per statute, the Association could assess you the cost of the legal fees in addition to the monetary penalties.

As I pointed out in my initial posting, the Associatin has some descrestion on how to apply the penalties.

For example: The Association could, per statute, assesses you $50 for parking on the street. You move the car - the Association says the issue is resolved but you park it there again (perhaps that evening). So the Association assesses you another $50 for the violation. Worst case - this could amount up to $18,250 (however, I doubt it would get that far).

What is more likely, the Association would impose a penalty of $50 for the first offense. They would then impose penalties of $10 per day for additional offenses. They would also (very likely) turn the issue over to the attorney (which they charge back to you). This could amount to thousands (and the court very well may uphold it). Example:
$ 50 - first offense
$ 10 - second offense
$ 10 - 3rd.
$ 70 - following week
$ 300 - Attorney letter telling you to comply
$ 70 - following week
$ 300 - attorney letter telling you to comply
$ 70 - following week
$ 300 - attorney letter threatening legal action
$ 70 - following week
$ 300 - legal fees filing court case
$ 100 - Court costs
$ 70 - following week
$ 300 - your consultation with an attorney over the issue.
etc.

This has totaled $2,000 and the Association hasn't reached it's $900 limit for continuing infraction.

I understand that you are simply trying to determine if the Association has a limit and what that limit is. I expect that this is so you can do a cost analysis to see if it's worth paying to park on the street. What you don't understand, the worst case, the Association can seek legal action to force compliance. This will cost you more then you expect.

My suggestion - work something out.

Perhaps you can expand your driveway to accommodate your extra vehicle
If you have a garage, perhaps you can rent a storage unit to clear the garage out enough to park a vehicle.

Hope this helps,

Tim
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MalakA on 04/10/2021 2:30 PM
So actually, they can't tow any vehicle. Our streets are public (this is Virginia), and you can't tow a vehicle on public streets. What they can do is assess fines for the offense. What I don't know is how the fines would work. There is a legal maximum of $900, but is that per year, or what? It's like $10 a day for ongoing offenses, to a maximum of $900. Is that every year? Is that life time?
-- If you move the vehicle pretty much daily, and if I were the HOA board and was enforcing the parking rule uniformly against all residents as occasions arise, every time your vehicle moved to a different parking spot I would call this a new offense. It would not be a "continuing offense" per ยง 55.1-1819. Adoption and enforcement of rules., Section D.

-- If your goal is to just leave the vehicle in the exact same spot for days on end, and if I were the HOA Board, I would check with the city about the rules for long-term parking on city streets. For example, in Fairfax County, Virginia, the police may tow an inoperable vehicle left for four days on a public road. (I think the OP may say, "Well the vehicle is operable, so they can't tow it." If the vehicle is there for more than four days, I wouldn't bank on the police not towing it.

Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/11/2021 6:32 AM
I understand that you are simply trying to determine if the Association has a limit and what that limit is. I expect that this is so you can do a cost analysis to see if it's worth paying to park on the street.
I too am wondering this.

Nice research by TimB4.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Of course the local municipality may also have rules about parking on public roads, and these could also result in fines and towing.

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