Childish blabbermouth Board member (Long post)

Started by AnnaJ1 • 30 replies • 735 views

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AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

So…several months back the Board decided to establish an Architectural Review Committee (ARC) made up of non-board member homeowners. We had 2 people, but only one person was really active. This guy was just approving alterations without any regard for the ARC guidelines. He didn’t look closely at the applications. One application for a new backyard shed was approved. Sheds are allowed, so long as a photo of the intended shed is included. The picture the homeowner uploaded was of cleaning sponges! Thankfully the homeowner put a decent shed in, but what if they didn’t?

So, the Board decided we would resume the job of ARC approvals. We dismissed him from the committee. He was pissed. So, when an increase in dues ($5 per month) was proposed, he, along with his buddy, put all these flyers in mailboxes trashing the Board, saying we’re mis-managing funds, we don’t listen to the community, we are getting kickbacks, etc etc, lets “make our voices heard.” Just loads of lies and slander. We have a lawsuit against the developer and are paying for new streetlights—thus the increase.

He held a big meeting with homeowners that he dissuaded via the flyer. (A revolt, lol.) These people looked at him as a hero, were VERY belligerent during the annual meeting, and voted him onto the Board. The Board recently sent an email amongst one another to strategize about how to follow-up with all of the angry homeowners. He didn’t like some things that were said, and he shared the email with his “partner in retribution.” We know he shared it because his buddy, who was involved in the revolt, sent a scathing email to our management company about the contents of the email.

So now, the Board doesn’t feel comfortable with him having access to private or sensitive information, or him just being on the Board period. He’s shown he will give out confidential information. He trashed us all to the whole community, turned them against us, staged a revolt, and devised a plan to “get back at the Board” for being released from the ARC committee. Now smiles in our faces. There is nothing in our governing docs that addresses big mouth, stupid board members. His term is 3 years. What to do?

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Welcome to Board life. If in fact you have evidence that he is sharing confidential info (Executive Session stuff) and you have a majority of Board with you I would recommend a Censure. You can look up the details of how to go about it. It is a Public way to call him out and becomes part of the General session minutes. He was not elected by the Board so you can remove him. If he holds a Director position that can be taken away but that is about it. Not sure what your fellow Board members feel about this guy. If you have the majority he can be made a lamb duck with very limited power to influence. Many times these board members get frustrated and quit.

Good luck

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnnaJ1 on 09/23/2020 7:48 AM
There is nothing in our governing docs that addresses big mouth, stupid board members. His term is 3 years. What to do?

Where your HOA's governing docs speak and/or state law speak of fiduciary duty and acting "in the best interests of the association" covers this behavior, granted in an indirect way. I advise getting the HOA attorney involved to see exactly where this gentleman needs a legal warning from the HOA via the HOA attorney. This gentleman does have a legal right to see many documents as a director, but there are some caveats. Meanwhile, assuming the guy was lawfully elected to the Board, the other directors are obliged to respect that he is speaking for at least the members who elected him. I say the latter because it's hard to get a complete understanding of what is going on. Sometimes a dissident director is actually right about some things but the majority does not want to be bothered with correcting its wrongs.

AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

Thanks for the feedback you all--its helpful. The thing is that he isn't right about ANYTHING that he put on that flyer. And, the Board email that he shared with his friend didnt have anything particularly sensitive, but if he has no issue sharing that, he has no issue with sharing anything in my opinion.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnnaJ1 on 09/23/2020 7:48 AM
The Board recently sent an email amongst one another to strategize about how to follow-up with all of the angry homeowners.

Conducting board business by email is almost always unlawful. From what I can glean, I believe your Board should have discussed its problems with "angry homeowners" in an open board meeting, where this topic was on the agenda, and the open meeting was properly "noticed" to all HOA members. At the moment, I suspect this board member pretty much had a legal right to release the email to other homeowners.

I believe a meeting with the HOA attorney about how a board should conduct itself would likely benefit all the directors right now. The Board should come to the meeting with specific questions.

If I were on this Board, I would be unhappy that the Board seems to be gossiping via email as badly as the HOA membership.

AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

Good point about the legality of the discussion. Evidently per our attorney, this type of ad-hoc discussion is allowed, as it is to discuss how to frame the follow-up to concerns brought to us.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnnaJ1 on 09/23/2020 8:20 AM
Evidently per our attorney, this type of ad-hoc discussion is allowed, as it is to discuss how to frame the follow-up to concerns brought to us.

I would never bless ad hoc discussion outside an open meeting. Because this is just too vague and absolutely leads to gossip by email among directors. At most, each director is free to request whoever is authorized to compose the agenda that he/she would like xyz added to the agenda. The person compiling the agenda hopefully is intelligent enough to concisely state this as an agenda topic. Granted the chances of the typical director having this skill is less than 50%.

Hate me. This is my 1.5 cents.

ChrisE8
Posts: 454

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnnaJ1 on 09/23/2020 7:48 AM
So…several months back the Board decided to establish an Architectural Review Committee (ARC) made up of non-board member homeowners. We had 2 people, but only one person was really active. This guy was just approving alterations without any regard for the ARC guidelines. He didn’t look closely at the applications. One application for a new backyard shed was approved. Sheds are allowed, so long as a photo of the intended shed is included. The picture the homeowner uploaded was of cleaning sponges! Thankfully the homeowner put a decent shed in, but what if they didn’t?

So, the Board decided we would resume the job of ARC approvals. We dismissed him from the committee. He was pissed. So, when an increase in dues ($5 per month) was proposed, he, along with his buddy, put all these flyers in mailboxes trashing the Board, saying we’re mis-managing funds, we don’t listen to the community, we are getting kickbacks, etc etc, lets “make our voices heard.” Just loads of lies and slander. We have a lawsuit against the developer and are paying for new streetlights—thus the increase.

He held a big meeting with homeowners that he dissuaded via the flyer. (A revolt, lol.) These people looked at him as a hero, were VERY belligerent during the annual meeting, and voted him onto the Board. The Board recently sent an email amongst one another to strategize about how to follow-up with all of the angry homeowners. He didn’t like some things that were said, and he shared the email with his “partner in retribution.” We know he shared it because his buddy, who was involved in the revolt, sent a scathing email to our management company about the contents of the email.

So now, the Board doesn’t feel comfortable with him having access to private or sensitive information, or him just being on the Board period. He’s shown he will give out confidential information. He trashed us all to the whole community, turned them against us, staged a revolt, and devised a plan to “get back at the Board” for being released from the ARC committee. Now smiles in our faces. There is nothing in our governing docs that addresses big mouth, stupid board members. His term is 3 years. What to do?

Set up a special board committee to deal with sensitive issues, and don't include him on that committee.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I agree with Augie that your Board should not discuss much at all online except benign stuff like scheduling meetings or small administrative matters. Anything gossipy or personal is a very bad idea.

The rest of the the Board can form an "executive committee," as ChrisE suggests, that excludes him, to make decisions about any manner of things.

Have you had an actual board meeting yet, to see how he comports himself in front of owners? Oh, is MD an open-meeting state, where your board meetings must be open to Owners?

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ChrisE8 on 09/23/2020 8:51 AM
Set up a special board committee to deal with sensitive issues, and don't include him on that committee.

Only if the governing documents permit appointment of such committees. It is entirely possible they do not. Even if the governing documents permit appointment of such a committee, the committee will be powerless to do anything except make recommendations to the Board. The Board will likely discuss ad nauseam any recommendations. The committee's powerless recommendations and the Board's discussions of same, in an open meeting before members, will be repetitious and a waste of man- and womanpower in my opinion.

Maryland's HOA and condo statutes require open meetings except on a few limited topics.

Maryland's HOA statute requires committee meetings to also be open to all members.

AnnaJ1, is this a condominium?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It should be noted that it is ILLEGAL to put anything in a mailbox without a stamp on it. This can be reported to the post office to investigate. Just FYI.

Former HOA President

AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

No, it's not a condo. It's an HOA of single family homes.

Yes, we definitely addressed the fact that putting stuff in mailboxes is illegal. Our management company emailed residents a reminder of this. This only further enraged new Board member and his buddy, as they shot back at the management company for "defaming them for trying to bring together a community underserved by its Board." Just SO annoying and petty.

AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

Kerry, yes, we had a rushed Board meeting after the Annual Meeting from which he was elected. It was rushed because he and his minions held the meeting captive with almost 2 hours of nasty attacks and complaints. He conducted himself ok, but he didn't add anything substantive to the discussion. He's a dimly lit bulb in a poorly lit room. He suggested that we ask the landscaping company to use the fire hydrants to water the common area. They are called FIRE hydrants for a reason. They aren't "water common area" hydrants.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Sometimes you have to give people what they want to teach them what they don't. After the emotion calms down, let them have it. Now I am not saying not to make some kind of "safeguards" behind the scenes. Do not want complete destruction. However, I say let them get the full on responsible position they seek.

Believe me, once people who act like this get what they want, they find out it's not that easy as they think. Consequences follow. It's time for them to experience them not protect them from themselves.

It's going to be painful for all, but it shines a light back onto the beacon of one...

Former HOA President

AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

Great, great point.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You know you already have some serious consequences that the HOA doesn't need to be involved in completely. He doesn't want to believe the HOA, let the post office handle it. They have Postal Inspectors and a whole "police" section. I'd talk to them and see if they can do a bit of a reality check.

I would also contact the local fire marshal. Simply have them come by and do a "visit". They usually do come by to do fire hydrant maintenance. Which by the way you have to have a special tool to be able to open one of those. Maybe get them to chat about the rules of fire hydrants.

There are some resources here that a REAL and NOT HOA/MC based that need to give this light bulb a filament...

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Sounds like the new board member is what we call a "vocational dissident". There is a technique to dealing with them.

They want drama, conflict, and controversy. Your goal is to provide none of these things.

Your communications should be brief, factual, and bland. You're aiming for the dullest communications in the history of the human race. No back and forth, no unscripted responses (when I dealt with similar folks I had a collection of bland statements to use as needed, such as "thank you for your comments").

You'll need to stick with it, but eventually these folks will get tired when their nonsense consistently fails to get the desired response. They also eventually discredit themselves, especially if the rest of the board presents themselves are calm, professional and competent. Don't forget to use the normal communication channels to do this, such as a newsletter and website, but avoid social media - these guys thrive on social media. Given that enough people voted for the guy to get him onto the board, it sounds like the community could use some educating.

And don't relax your guard, because the vocational dissidents' psychological makeup never changes, and if someone falls into their trap in the future, you'll be off to the races again.

Welcome to the wonderful world of HOA boards. :-)

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Since it's not clear that "he" actually revealed any HOA confidential info, and the main issue seems to be his campaigning techniques., I think you should give him a little time.

But....back to the "rushed" meeting after he was elected. Was this a board meeting? Or an organizational meeting where you elected officers? WHAT kind of meeting was it? Was there an agenda? If not, why not? Why did the presider let it go on for two hours of pissing & moaning??

Being a dimly-lit bulb is not a disqualifier--the people voted. I and others have served with them.

Look, Anne, can your "new" board meet in some kind of training session to go over the basic rules of proper conduct at meetings, keeping executive session matters confidential, etc.? Perhaps led by your HOA attorney? Or, do you have a property manager? If they work for a management company, the MC might have someone to facilitate such a training session.

IF given some time and guidance, this man upsets meetings and actually does reveal confidential matters from executive session, se iff MD corporations codes permits your to form an executive committee. CA Corp. Code 7212 permits them and they must be comprised only of directors. Indoor meetings, you'd discuss and vote on confidential matters that you'd worry he'd reveal to the membership. this is one way to deal with rogue directors.

What size is your HOA? How many directors?

AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

Hi KerryL1, thanks for your response.

Great question about 2 hours of pissing and moaning. This was the Annual Meeting, which is officially a meeting of the membership. Thus the management company rep letting the membership (homeowners) piss and moan until their hearts were content. Remember, they were all riled up based on the false flyer the new Board member distributed prior to his election to the Board.

The rushed meeting was the actual Board meeting. So the agenda that day was Annual Meeting where new Board members were to be elected, and then a Board meeting of the new Board.

Great idea about an executive committee and/or training--I will mention this to the president.

We have 245 homes under our HOA--7 directors.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

We can pick our nose. We can pick our friends. We can pick our friends nose but we cannot pick our elected fellow BOD Members.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

We can pick our nose. We can pick our friends. We can pick our friends nose but we cannot pick our elected fellow BOD Members.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

So you do have an management company (MC), Anna. And it supplies you with a property manager? Is that person onsite full-time, or? Does s/he attend board meetings? And take minutes?

You wrote you had a rushed board meeting after the annual meeting. What was on the agenda of that board meeting?? Often it's for the Board to select officers.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 09/24/2020 12:47 PM
We can pick our nose. We can pick our friends. We can pick our friends nose but we cannot pick our elected fellow BOD Members.

Mic drop.

AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

Hi KerryL1,

Yes, we have an offsite MC that helps us execute tasks: Pays HOA bills, sends violations, finds vendors, etc etc. They attend and facilitate meetings, and take minutes.

The agenda on the board meeting that followed the Annual meeting was just old business. (Landscaping bids, etc.) Part of the agenda of the Annual meeting was to elect 2 new Board members whose term had expired.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Election of officers at the board meeting?

AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

HI GeorgeS21. We had the Annual Meeting where the election was held. Then the Board meeting followed.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

What George and I are trying to get at, Anna, is that the board itself usually elects officers. This usually happens after the annual meeting at a board meeting. We have our "organizational meeting" immediately following the annual meeting.

AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95

Posted:

Oh, I see now. Yes, after he was voted onto the Board he was then "voted" to the position of secretary by the Board. I put voted in quotations because It really wasn't even anything official. It's just that the person who was voted off was the secretary. So, he just took her place. The MC company asked us all would that be ok, we said fine.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

You really should have a formal vote for officers, i.e., nomination, 2nd, etc. The meeting presider, not the PM school ask for nominations.

Hmmmm, I see I have you & Tanya mixed up. Hope this makes sense.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

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