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AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95
Posted:
MY HOA is thinking of adding trash collection for the community, but we have about a 12% delinquency rate. We can't really direct the trash company to not take the trash of non-paying residents as it turns into a hazard for all of us. But I have reservations about footing the bill for non-payers. Can anyone who has this service included provide advice on how to handle this?
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Given it is a mandatory HOA, you will eventually collect - assuming you are liening properties in arrears?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
How is trash service handled now? If everyone makes their own arrangements or the city or county takes care of it (and people pay for it through taxes), it might be best to keep things as they are Until the delinquency rate goes down.

Actually, I think that may be the best option because it's too risky for responsible homeowners to suffer because of the deadbeats. There's a community down the street from mine that has a common water meter, and a few years ago, They nearly lost it because the delinquency rate was over 50%. People came home one evening to find disconnect notices on their doors and all help broke loose.

They had to cough up the money to the tune of several hundred dollars per house within two weeks or so. I don't know what happened after that, but I suspect people found out who the deadbeats were and a lot of them ended up losing their homes.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaJ1 on 09/23/2020 6:31 AM
MY HOA is thinking of adding trash collection for the community
If providing such a service is not already explicitly in your HOA's governing documents (Declaration), then your HOA would have to obtain a vote of members (typically by a super-majority of members) to amend the Declaration. Else your Board would be attempting to change a contractual term (covenant) unlawfully.
AnnaJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your feedback. Right now, each homeowner selects and pays for the trash company of their choice. I think the board president feels pressured to provide more services to the community, since the perception of the neighborhood is "we pay dues but get nothing." Which isn't true, because several common areas are cared for and we have a playground. Plus we are aggressively funding a reserve fund due to a community center that will be built.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaJ1 on 09/23/2020 7:04 AM
I think the board president feels pressured to provide more services to the community, since the perception of the neighborhood is "we pay dues but get nothing."
I believe your Board needs to have a "come to jesus" meeting with a competent HOA attorney. Said attorney will explain that the HOA provides only what is listed in the covenants, period. Under the law, HOA Boards have only the powers to provide services listed in the covenants. It is a huge and dangerous legal blunder to provide services not listed in the covenants.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 09/23/2020 7:02 AM
Posted By AnnaJ1 on 09/23/2020 6:31 AM
MY HOA is thinking of adding trash collection for the community
If providing such a service is not already explicitly in your HOA's governing documents (Declaration), then your HOA would have to obtain a vote of members (typically by a super-majority of members) to amend the Declaration. Else your Board would be attempting to change a contractual term (covenant) unlawfully.

This is accurate.

If owners feel like they get nothing for payment of their assessments, help them understand what their money is going toward. I previously created a breakdown for owners that showed what every dollar of their monthly assessment went toward. Breaking it down like that makes it more tangible and understandable in my opinion.

Depending on community size and proximity of homes, there are definitely some positive aspects of having all owners on the same schedule for trash/recycling pickup as well as likely significant savings or all if a single trash hauler is utilized. However, since it isn't currently setup that way, making it that way could be challenging (will need to do the above). And then there is still the issue of delinquent owners still not paying their fair share.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I concur with ND's advice to regularly talk about and advertise the budget breakdown and what the covenants authorize the HOA to provide. I think education is a large part of a HOA board's job. By "education" I mean repeat, early and often, whatever point it is the Board wants members (including new members) to understand.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I agree with Augustine. You can't just add services in a HOA. It's like adding pest control services. That is all and good to provide it for the common areas like clubhouses but not necessarily individual member's homes.

This service has to be part of your provided services the dues are to pay for. The HOA is ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. This has to be agreed upon to be something everyone pays for with their dues. You ALWAYS have to factor in the coverage of people not paying. We usually factored in a 10% in our overall budget.

Plus it's time to set up a policy of when the HOA liens/forecloses for unpaid dues. Ours is 6 months we lien. 1 year we CONSIDER foreclosure. Foreclosure is a stop the bleeding act not a money making one.

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Setting aside the whining from owners about getting little for their assessments, there is a need in some neighborhoods to assist in fixing basic issues - and, having 3-4 different trash pickup companies, is pretty silly.

In a former community in Virginia, this was the case.

We conducted a vote on adding a single service for the community to pay for in increased assessments - for trash pickup.

One set of trucks, once per week, cost was about 1/2, etc.

Further - our roads were private - and, this reduced the rolling damage.

It can be done - and, it might be appropriate -but, make sure you follow the rules, understand the consequences and the costs.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
We added trash pickup in my community. In my view, the main reason for doing it was as a service to the owners, since the per-home group rate charge was noticeably less than the individual charge. The other advantage was that trash collection occurs only one day a week rather than multiple days (depending on how many companies in your area provide service).

As noted, the disadvantage is that you'll have less leverage over the delinquent owners. We don't have much of an issue in that area, but it always annoyed the heck out of me when I was on the board. If delinquencies are an issue in your community, I would recommend not going that route since the association itself benefits little from the change (wear and tear on streets would be the big one if your streets are private).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Technically, providing such service would, in my opinion, require modification of the covenants.

When you say 12% delinquency rate, do you mean that those members are 1 - 2 months behind or 3 or more months behind?
Did you have this rate prior to March of this year (pandemic) or is this simply an issue for the moment?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our trash collection (single family homes) is done weekly by one company on the same day and is paid for by each individual owner. Owners can also, at no charge, bring their own trash to county recycle company. I could not see us adding paid for by the HOA unless we raised dues which I doubt would pass.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
We were paying a Termite bond for years that included the common property AND the individual residences. A few years ago the president was looking to trim out some budget "fat" and realized our governing documents did not mention termite prevention/treatment at all. So a quick $10,000 budget reduction was realized.

Looking at next year's budget I see, again for the umpteenth year in a row, $11,000 for trash and recycling services from Big Green & Yellow.

Trash and/or recycling services are not mentioned anywhere in the governing documents. I'm going to suggest that we should either (a) amend our CC&Rs or (b) cutting the homeowners loose and make them responsible to obtain their own individual waste, trash, and recycling arrangements. That should go over like a lead balloon. "But we've always done it this way!"
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
While I understand the potential rationale, I do not believe adding a service like trash pickup, requires a change in CCRs.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
It's something the homeowners have to pay for that's not in the contract (e.g. governing documents).
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 09/23/2020 6:19 PM
We were paying a Termite bond for years that included the common property AND the individual residences. A few years ago the president was looking to trim out some budget "fat" and realized our governing documents did not mention termite prevention/treatment at all. So a quick $10,000 budget reduction was realized.

Looking at next year's budget I see, again for the umpteenth year in a row, $11,000 for trash and recycling services from Big Green & Yellow.

Trash and/or recycling services are not mentioned anywhere in the governing documents. I'm going to suggest that we should either (a) amend our CC&Rs or (b) cutting the homeowners loose and make them responsible to obtain their own individual waste, trash, and recycling arrangements. That should go over like a lead balloon. "But we've always done it this way!"

In my opinion, you should think about the decision to cancel trash/recycling services a lot harder. Understood that docs may not indicate it's HOA's job to provide trash pickup; however, that is how it's always been done. As I alluded to and as other posters mentioned, having one provider service the entire neighborhood has several benefits:
- Reduced cost for each owner (usually significantly reduced).
- Less wear and tear on your streets, less noise and disturbance, less oil and hydraulic fluid leaks (all these trucks leak) because only 1-2 trucks each week as opposed to 1-2 per trash company.
- Pickup is on one day as opposed to potentially every day of the week (there will always be trash/recycling bins lining the streets).
- Trash/recycling bin uniformity as opposed to every different company's size and color bins.
- Only a single company to deal with when problems arise as opposed to several.

Budget reductions are great . . . but trash/recycling pickup is something that just about everyone needs. HOA would be cutting the $11k bill, bit it would be transferred directly to each individual homeowner and will likely double. Owners will be double-annoyed because you're canceling something that's always been that way and worked (I presume) and then their overall bill is going up.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
George this does require changes in the CC&R's or By-laws to be included what your dues cover. If you pay for anything out of dues money, it has to be defined. Which includes things like pest control, cable, garbage, recycle, and other optional type services.

When our HOA changed from 1 shared water meter to separate water meters, we had to change that definition in our CC&R's. That is because our dues did NOT cover individual water any more. Otherwise people may be lead to think the HOA pays for something it doesn't.

When had to go to court over our foreclosure, this question was asked of what our dues covered. The guilty party was trying to claim cable, water, and other expenses were included in our dues. Argument was they were not provided these things and thus needed reimbursed? It was some lame excuse for not paying dues etc... Was able to shut them down on that argument quickly.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Our CC&Rs and Bylaws already provided for including utilities in the monthly assessment. Water was included from the get-go (because condos), so adding another utility didn't require any changes.

Also, our Bylaws include a statement that including utilities in assessments may provide an unfair advantage to some unit owners and an unfair disadvantage to other unit owners. That's certainly the case with water, where people living alone subsidize the families, but not so with our trash pickup since it's a flat fee per unit. But I think if you're going to change your CC&Rs to allow inclusion of utilities in assessments, you should include a similar statement just to cover your bases.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Actually, there are two circumstances that occurred in Virginia.

1. Everyone in the neighborhood wanted to pay half as much to a private contractor - everyone said so, but this was a small 50 home neighborhood on 5 acres each
2.The private contractor started doing a bad job, so we asked the county to pick up - they insisted on 2/3 agreement from neighborhood which we got - and, then the county billed it on the same statement as taxes - marked separately.

So, it does depend.

But, I don't know that it requires a change in the CCRs - just an agreement from the owners. But, if you are going to go to that much trouble, it might be better to put in a utilities clause of some sort and be done with it.
GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182
Posted:
Our docs state. "To pay for water, sewerage, ............ and other utilities and expenses as shall be designated by the Board."

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