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MarecaJ (Ohio)
Posts: 8
Posted:
We are recent homeowner run HOA. In January the HOA was turned over from the developer. So in January, they held a member meeting, nothing was ran according to how a Board of Directors is to operate. They held a raised hand vote for the board members after a 2 min introduction of who wanted to run. Only about 30 of the 75 house was represented. At that meeting they tabled a reserve fund (we have a brick entry sign and nothing else, but grass in a common area) a budget was approved, but was not clear what the homeowners share of funds were. The budget shows $175 then we were assessed $250. they decided an ARB was not needed at that time.

Fast forward nine months later, they hold a meeting. At this meeting they read the minutes from Jan, in there they note they need to get bids for lawn maintenance? They provide a mid term report, now discuss they have formed an ARB, and will be noting violations, they discuss financials, next years budget, and what to do with the common area other old business and solicited new business. They proposes 3 options and are requesting a vote. Our CCR specifically state any improvements to the common area require a Special meeting and 51% of the voting power. When I questioned this action they stated this meeting was a special meeting. My understanding special meetings are held when an immediate action needs to be addressed that cannot wait until the next regularly scheduled meeting. What is your understanding of a special meeting?

Next on to non-response. I have asked to see the BoD meeting minutes, and receipts twice, I have asked about mismanagement on the budget, in January their budget was for $9K with a 50% unknown making $12K. They have gone over the$ 12K by $300+. None of their numbers add up and I asked where the money is. They have put 'permanent' fixtures at the entrance without a vote of the homeowners, I asked who authorized it, nothing. I have sent an email (their preferred method) and then posed on our community page. What are my next steps? Can I send a certified letter to the lawyer they have on retainer?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Mare

Typically there are 5 types of meetings:

1. Annual Members Meeting. Once a year meeting where along with other things, there is usually an election for seats on the BOD. Members (owners) have to be notified on when and where at least 30 days before the meeting and in most cases, notified by US Mail. Not sure what you docs say,

2. BOD Meetings. How often they meet varies. Some docs set a minimum amount of meetings per year. Some BOD's meet weekly. How owners are notified varies from a week before to not having to be notified. Owners can usually attend these meetings but that varies. Not sure what your docs say.

3. BOD Executive Session. BOD meetings that owners are not allowed to attend. Usually to discuss personal and legal issues. General association business cannot be done at these meetings.

4. Emergency BOD Meeting. To address an emergency issue that must be dealt with now.

5. Special Meetings. Can be called for by the BOD or a specific numbers of owners. Typically called to discuss a specific situation and are limited to that issue. They are not a general bytching meeting. Not sure what your docs say.

Notice I say not sure what yours docs say. Covenants, Bylaws, Rules & Regulations (docs) can vary from association to association and state to to state. If you are going to question your BOD you need to read, reread, reread and reread your docs so you know what you are speaking of.

If you want information, minutes, budgets, etc. you need to send a request directly to the BOD not just request such on an open chat board.

The associations lawyer is not your lawyer. Typically any requests sent to him will be turned over to the BOD and the lawyer will not respond directly to you.
MarecaJ (Ohio)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Great I am tracking the same information regarding the types of meetings. This is what are governing documents say regarding meetings.

Section 6.02 Annual Meetings
The first annual meeting of the Members, whether a special or a regular meeting, will be held within One (1) year from the date on which title to Fifty Percent (50%) of all Lots in the Subdivision have been conveyed to Owner Members. Subsequent regular annual meetings will be set by the Board on a date and at time set by the Board.

Section 6.03 Special Meetings
Special meetings of the Members may be called at any time after the first annual meeting of the Members by the President, a majority of the Board acting with or without meeting, or upon a petition signed by Owner Members representing at least twenty-five percent (25%) of the membership votes of the Corporation on that matter. All special meetings of the Members will be held at a time and at a location established by the Board, but not less than Thirty (30) days after receipt of the appropriate written request for the meeting.

I have requested the documents in writing and the board is ignoring my request.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Welcome to the world of HOA's.
MarecaJ (Ohio)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Never again that is for sure.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Oh, c'mon - this is normal stuff during a turnover and standup of an HOA/COA/POA. It's normal during non-turnover times, too!

The developer may still have controlling membership votes and controlling seats on the board.

Let's wait for more information from Mareca, and there will likely be several more providing assistance.

And, Mareca, per the yellow banner - "A positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn."
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 09/21/2020 10:09 AM
Oh, c'mon - this is normal stuff during a turnover and standup of an HOA/COA/POA. It's normal during non-turnover times, too!

The developer may still have controlling membership votes and controlling seats on the board.

Let's wait for more information from Mareca, and there will likely be several more providing assistance.

And, Mareca, per the yellow banner - "A positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn."

What George really is saying, don't come here to complain.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Lots of stuff to unpack here, so here's one person's opinion and suggestions:

Regarding the board election, I assume every got notice of the meeting and election, so if only 30 out of 75 households bothered to show up, that's on the neighbors - and they may or may not come to regret they didn't attend. You don't say if you raised your hand to volunteer as a board member - if not, that's on YOU. Sometimes you have to get off your ass and step into the madness, because if you dont, what needs to be done may not happen. Remember that next time and keep going to meetings so you'll know what's going on.

I assume you've taken a look at your documents (bylaws and CCRs) - if not pull them out and read them. Generally the bylaws dictate how the association is fun and the CCRs dictate how the common areas are to be used. The bylaws may address what a special meeting, board meeting and annual meeting are - use that citation when you ask them to clarify what type of meeting this was supposed to be.

Generally annuals are used to conduct board elections, regular board meeting are what the board has every month or quarter, and as you've guessed, special meetings are usually called for specific reasons that will require homeowner attendance, such as board recall.

There could be emergency board meetings for the reasons you state, but they should be rare. I think boards should have policies and procedures on what constitutes an emergency, how the meeting will be called and documented. That policy should be discussed and voted upon at a regular board meeting, so it's noted In the minutes. Yes, the minutes should be made available to homeowners upon request. A good board will publish approved minutes on the association website and newsletter, if there is one,as well as emailed to homeowners upon request.

In this case, you didn't say If the grass in the common area is a vacant lot and/or the lawns in front of the homes. selecting a lawn maintenance vendor doesn't require a special meeting - that's something The board can discuss at a regular meeting.

The board, not homeowners, select association vendors, so they should discuss The pros and cons of the bids, vote on who will be hired and homeowners should be able to listen to the proceedings. If They have comments or suggestions, those can be taken during a residents forum (not required, but I encourage them because the board could be made aware of issues They may not have considered).

However, if the board was considering building something on the common area, such as a park, that should prompt a special meeting, so homeowners could be informed about the proposed improvement, such as a park, its impact on the budget and future assessments, if the bylaws or CCRs will have to be amended to include the park, etc. Then homeowners can weigh in on what they won't and possibly vote on an amendment to the documents. Amending documents is drama in itself, so keep reading yours to see how that's done do you can call out the board.

Finally, you don't need to send a certified letter to the association attorney requesting the budget and board meeting minutes - at least not yet. If your community has a property manager, you could send a letter that way, with a copy to all the board members, if you have their addresses. Send the certified letter to the property manager or board president recurring receipt requested. be sure to cite the section in your documents that addresses homeowner access to association records.

Then go to the next board meeting and make your request in person. You might want to talk to some of your neighbors and see if they feel the same - if so, encourage them to tag along. It's easy to try and blow off one homeowner, but it's dicier to do this in front of a group. Good luck!

If the board was proposing to do something with


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MarecaJ (Ohio)
Posts: 8
Posted:
I am not complaining, if it came across that way not my intent. I was asking for clarification on what specific meetings are for and am trying to learn. Yes lots of growing pains in this neighborhood. There is a group of folks who are not getting answers to the tough questions.

The board will say one thing in the meeting then go behind closed doors and do the exact opposite. Not a single BOD meeting minutes or financials are available for the homeowners. Others have asked. Common area is an entry sign and grass area. Our documents specifically state any improvements must be done with a special meeting and 51% vote. The board is not operating within the guidelines and I am asking what I can do?

Being is on the board not an option at the moment due to personal reasons but not out of the question in the future.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Just FYI: Ohio is not an open meeting state. So unless the CC&Rs require BOD meetings to be open to the membership, the board is doing nothing wrong by keeping them closed. (Having said that, many boards hold open meetings whether they've required to or not. Transparency and all that.)

Ohio also allows something called Action in Writing, which basically means that the board conducts business via email or other platform.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Forgot to mention:

The quorum requirement for the annual meeting can be low. Our CC&Rs require only 20%, and that includes people who are present by proxy only (ie, not physically in attendance). The only way we'd have 30 attendees out of 74 units would be if there was a hot-button issue up for discussion and vote or a knock-down-drag-out contested election.

As others have mentioned, homeowner turnover can be a ragged business. Throw on top of that the pandemic, and Ohio state health directives limiting the numbers at gatherings, and a board who likely doesn't have the electronic infrastructure in place to allow online meetings, it's no wonder things seem confused. If the bills are getting paid and the common areas are being maintained, more or less, you're doing OK.
MarecaJ (Ohio)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thank you Cathy, Our documents state the BOD meetings are to be open to all members.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 09/21/2020 10:09 AM
Oh, c'mon - this is normal stuff during a turnover and standup of an HOA/COA/POA. It's normal during non-turnover times, too!

The developer may still have controlling membership votes and controlling seats on the board.

Let's wait for more information from Mareca, and there will likely be several more providing assistance.

And, Mareca, per the yellow banner - "A positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn."

George brings up a good point.

There is a difference between turning over HOA control to the membership, which is often tied to percentage of sold homes, vs. final relinquishment of any control or voting or obligations to the new community.

It's not unusual for a developer to defer completion of final tasks until the very end, which may be a year or more after the final home is built. Examples: final regarding of the area around a detention pond and passing of inspections, or final completion of the landscaping at the community entrance, or final resurfacing of streets after the heavy equipment is no longer coming and going.

Newbie boards may not know what's going on and may not even know to ask about stuff like this.

In other words, don't attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance. Ask questions instead.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 09/21/2020 10:09 AM
Oh, c'mon - this is normal stuff during a turnover and standup of an HOA/COA/POA. It's normal during non-turnover times, too!

The developer may still have controlling membership votes and controlling seats on the board.

Let's wait for more information from Mareca, and there will likely be several more providing assistance.

And, Mareca, per the yellow banner - "A positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn."

George brings up a good point.

There is a difference between turning over HOA control to the membership, which is often tied to percentage of sold homes, vs. final relinquishment of any control or voting or obligations to the new community.

It's not unusual for a developer to defer completion of final tasks until the very end, which may be a year or more after the final home is built. Examples: final regarding of the area around a detention pond and passing of inspections, or final completion of the landscaping at the community entrance, or final resurfacing of streets after the heavy equipment is no longer coming and going.

Newbie boards may not know what's going on and may not even know to ask about stuff like this.

In other words, don't attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance. Ask questions instead.

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