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LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
Hi,

I have been searching for several hours trying to find some authoritative reference to the following question.

when a condominium board has only 5 of 9 seats filled. Amongst those 5 there is no president no vice president no secretary. ( we do still have the treasurer).

And if the bylaws say the vacant seats SHALL be filled.

Is there a requirement somewhere that the board fill the vacant seats BEFORE they elect the officers.

Our board declined to fill the 4 open seats at the meeting this past week.(despite sending a notice that the board would be filling the seats at this meeting) but they went ahead and voted themselves into the open officer positions.
president , vp and secretary.

The parliamentarian even stated that he couldn't find a requirement of filling the seats before appointing the officers, but logically the by filling the vacant seats. the board is allowing all of the future board to vote on officers and also have an opportunity to be considered for an officer position.

The board said, they appreciated his opinion. however. they were going to go ahead and elect the officers . They said, if when we fill the vacant seats at a later date, the board will always have theoption of removing an officer etc..
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Forced (unpaid) labor is illegal in the US.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 09/19/2020 9:09 PM
Forced (unpaid) labor is illegal in the US.

Your opinion are always helpful and far reaching.

What would this discussion board be without you!
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
John, I think I get your point.

I’m assuming you got mine?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LaskaS on 09/19/2020 8:50 PM
And if the bylaws say the vacant seats SHALL be filled.
In my opinion no court will force a board to appoint directors that a board majority feels are unsuitable for service on the board.

I think your focus should be on the next election. If the board refuses to run an election, then focus on fixing this.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
I'm sorry I must not have been clear.

If there are 5 board members who are going to fill the 4 vacant seats at a meeting.

also, new office of the board are to be elected(by the board) at the same meeting.

It seems obvious to me that the board should fill the 4 vacant seats with qualified available owners that have indicated interest in being on the board FIRST

and then the board of 9 filled seats should elect the officers.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LaskaS on 09/19/2020 11:03 PM
I'm sorry I must not have been clear.

If there are 5 board members who are going to fill the 4 vacant seats at a meeting.

also, new office of the board are to be elected(by the board) at the same meeting.

It seems obvious to me that the board should fill the 4 vacant seats with qualified available owners that have indicated interest in being on the board FIRST

and then the board of 9 filled seats should elect the officers.


Personal opinion:

You have a functioning board now.

You need officers now.

Experienced board members are much more likely to know what they're doing than newbies, and thus more qualified to be officers.

In your board's place, I'd name the officers now. The only reason to wait would be if one of the newbies had skills that the board needed, in which case it would make sense to hold off until that person was appointed.

I think you could make a good argument that doing things this way is in the best interest of the association. More to the point, I've never seen language in bylaws that would prevent a board from doing so.

Officer positions are simply job descriptions. Officers don't have any more authority than non-officer directors, they just have more work to do (and blame to catch if things don't go as they should).

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LaskaS on 09/19/2020 11:03 PM

It seems obvious to me that the board should fill the 4 vacant seats with qualified available owners that have indicated interest in being on the board FIRST
In my opinion the Board does not have to do this.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
No forced labor? 😢

Sorry, but hard to resist ... a board should fill open board positions, if allowed to do so by state and/or bylaws.

But, if there are NOT enough volunteers, this OBVIOUSLY doesn’t work ... and, I don’t think it is possible to force folks to serve.

Laska continues, now, to burn our time.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
George. Augustine,,

"vacancies shall be filled by a majority vote of the remaining board members, even though they may comprise less than a quorum."

1.If a board is acting in good faith and there are 3 willing owners who are qualified it should fill the vacant seats. It seems to me any refusal to fill the seats is simply the current board members not wanting to dilute their current majority.

i.e. The current 4 other board members are making up excuses to not fill the vacancies.

IF, there weren't any volunteers, that's another scenario. In that case. as long as the board consisted of at least a quorum of the stipulated 9 seats . Then the board can still operate.

If at any time, the number of members falls below 5. the board can take no actions before filling vacancies.

This makes perfect sense to me, The bylaws, as vague as they are, do contain some protections from a small number of board members taking over and running things how they want.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Laska

A couple here know that you would be a pain in the butt in their HOA's and therefore are treating you with the same contempt.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LaskaS on 09/20/2020 11:18 AM
"vacancies shall be filled by a majority vote of the remaining board members, even though they may comprise less than a quorum."

1.If a board is acting in good faith and there are 3 willing owners who are qualified it should fill the vacant seats. It seems to me any refusal to fill the seats is simply the current board members not wanting to dilute their current majority. i.e. The current 4 other board members are making up excuses to not fill the vacancies.
From what you have posted before, of course it's clear to me that the Board may be making up excuses. But what I think you are not addressing is being able to prove in a court that the board is making up excuses. I do not think a court would undertake undermining a board's judgment on this issue. In my opinion you do not have law that would back up your covenant.

In particular, the covenant is flawed when it says "by a majority vote." The covenant is saying that, if there is no majority vote to fill the seat, then the seat will not be filled.

I am certain the legal reasoning here is over your head. If you are serious about trying to get the board to fill these vacant seats, write a demand letter and the hire an attorney. And you do need an attorney.

Meanwhile IMO you should focus on the next election.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Nah - this isn't contempt, IMO, this is simply folks who have been exasperated by ankle biting in organizations, expressing their beliefs in this circumstance.

I know how I would respond on my board to Laska's question - I would answer them directly. If the questions continued and they began to be distracting to the business of the board, I would attempt to cut them off. If Laska continued, I would attempt to support another at the next election. I would be clear about this to everyone.

If Laska threatened legal action, I would say I am sorry, but that we would see one another in court.

I'm guessing, but I think the board in question has simply had enough - enough talking, enough interaction with Laska - and, when Laska's actions continued, they sought some mechanism to allow them to continue to manage their association. Maybe the right one, maybe not.

If Laska is serious about continuing these interactions, an attorney should be hired to argue with the association's attorney.

Or, a recall election?
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
JohnC77

Thanks for pointing that out. Obviously posts on a message board are not going to come from a person commenting on the wonderfulness of the way their board operates. Posts on any message board are always weighted heavily towards problems and concerns. When everything is hunkydory, there would be no need or cause for a person(me) to seek answer from people that have more experience than I do. However, it's unfortunate that my numerous visits to these message boards and attempts to be detailed in my questions are met with responses from people that are ascribing to me the characteristics of people they have experienced. Nothing is black and white. I have always attempted to work within the system. But when the system starts having one set of rules for board members in favor and one set of rules for board members not in favor. That is the kind of thing that discourages others from serving on a board.

This is not some high school click , the board members agree to be objective and unbiased ,, apply rules fairly, etc.. this is not what is happening.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
the combination of continued intentional ignorance of some board members and their desire to not have to really think too hard about anything, to me clearly suggests they need to get off the board.

I would volunteer to babysit if I didn't like kids.. geez.

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