demand letter from hoa attorney

ok, here goes. ... ..

The president resigned. But he made sure before he resigned to approve the attorney sending me a demand letter that states I am not allowed to enter the property office or clubhouse for any reason. I am not allowed to talk to the manager or employees for any reason..

At the july board meeting, remotely accessed by everyone. Towards the end of the Meeting , out of nowhere, the president makes a motion to prevent me from going into the property office for any reason. The minute I heard what he was doing I objected. The host of the meeting,(the man that owns the company that does our accounting) then somehow disabled my access to the meeting, i couldn't hear what was going on. Noone could hear me.

About an hour later. I receive the proposed minutes of the meeting.
I immediately informed the secretary that I was unable to hear or be heard and that should have been clear. In addition. the motions were made without any notice and without being on the agenda. Also, the board has no authority over an owners right to speech and right to access the common areas.

The remaining board members are completely against everything I say or do. They want me gone at all costs. I have support from many residents and owners though. I receive thank you emails all the time when I send out notifications of what is going on. I stick to the facts and violations of our bylaws.

I responded to the demand letter

with the following.

Attorney M, I am responding to the demand letter sent Aug 26.2020.
I am rejecting the claims and demands in the letter for the following reasons.

1. the motions were made during the july 15th monthly meeting hosted by JD
JD blocked my ability to hear or be heard towards the end of the meeting. I repeatedly tried to rejoin, I was blocked.
I immediately notified the secretary after the meeting by email that jeff had blocked me from hearing or talking.
When all board members are not able to be heard and hear all other board members the meeting does not meet the requirements regarding actions taken at a remotely accessed meeting.

2. The restrictions that the board is attempting to place on me are the direct result of false accusations made against me by the property manager in an effort to save her job. I reject the accusations made by ET(property manager) At the board meeting called to discuss the accusations.. Both the president and treasurer gave first person accounts that called into question the truthfulness and motives behind E's accusations. Thy are the only two board members that interacted with E. They clearly stated she was manipulative and was twisting the facts. According to the treasurer, She has done so repeatedly in order to divide the board. According to president , elizabeth exaggerated her statement regarding me reopening the office door. The door was not bolted closed. It was very easily pulled open. I opened it after elizabeth indicated she was going to show me something on the property only to push me out of the office and try and close the door. I went back in the office and took pictures of the disarray and lack of proper record keeping that was occuring.

3. I have contacted the police and was told that on private property, where i'm an owner. I have as much right to access the common areas an every other owner.
The police also verified that there was no record of any restraining order legally issued, nor a request.
The police also told me that false harassment claims are made all the time. Only the court can issue a restraining order and restraining orders are not given in a neighbor to neighbor dispute based on here say.

4..Regarding the 3 motions you listed in the letter.

Motion 1 regarding my authority as a director to direct the property manager on landscaping issues. The board previously voted to give assign that authority to me. I have no objection to the board taking it away. That I agree is well within the boards authority.

motion 2 stating I am not permitted to enter the office. motion 3 , i am not permitted to speak with any employees. I reject as being unenforceable and outside of the boards authority.

If the board chooses to spend more owner money and have you respond. I approve response through certified email.
Otherwise, I will consider this matter closed .

thank you

The president signed this the day he resigned paperwork stating the new policies the day he resigned.

I just want to make sure that I am solid ground. I have done nothing wrong. The accusations made against me were not true and the actions the board is trying to take now are simply a bullying tactic.
I did call the police to see if the letters threat of trespass is valid. They did say that this is a hoa matter and they have no juridiction.

again,, the property manager is an employee of the hoa.. not a separate company.

I only go to the office if i need to put in a work order or request..

I don['t go to the office to visit.

There was no need to pass a policy and add it to the minutes and spend money having the attorney have a letter delivered to me.

Did you not see what i wrote.. the president signed the approval the day he resigned. he hates me.

If I didn't get regular encouragement and thank yous from owners and residents who support my attempts to get the board to follow the bylaws and properly address common area issues i would have given up a long time ago.

This letter from the attorney goes above and beyond. It's one thing for the board infighting and the constant attempts to skirt the bylaws by some board members.

In addition., I believe the policy they passed is meant to humiliate me. I have exposed quite a bit of wrongdoing. I have been consistent from the beginning. Like it or not, we have to follow the bylaws and declaration. However, i get constant pushback by the former president and board members telling me I'm preventing progress.

you've been reading too many old magazines with nonsense back of the page personality tests.

but um,, i guess thanks for the proverb.

Laska

Why do I think you were always in the MC's face demanding things?

I'll state again, here - if I were on Laska's board, and had to listen to all of this all the time - I would quit.

LaskaS, just ignore the demand letter and do whatever you want, as long as you're certain that it's not in violation of the governing documents of your HOA. I wouldn't have bothered responding to it. Just because someone wants to fight doesn't mean that you have to fight. Smile and carry on.

I live in a community in Florida ,so here is my opinion of your course of action if you live in florida. Request the invoice for the cost of the Lawyers letter mailed to you. AFTER YOU have the cost of the letter post it on your community bulliten board with a statement that it waA board wastes the members money . FIND members who are willing to serve on the Board and recall the old BOARD with the new members you encouraged to serve....That's it ...you can govern or be governed ..that's the power in a community and the only way to resolve the issue ,Lawyers courts , State administrative enforcement ..will only cost money and waste your time....SO FIND out how much money was wasted on the lawyers letter and then attempt to recall the Board Best ThomasK

Lorie,

Without detail, I can’t provide an assessment. You have provided some gross generalizations. Are you sure you haven’t burned all your bridges?

Augustine,

Yes I am on the board, and I am positive that the act of JD(the owner of the management company that does our accounting ) muting me and preventing me from being able to hear is a clear violation of my right to participate.

.

in response to me being on solid ground..

There has been no protective order ore restraining order. How could there be, I haven't done anything that would even come close to anything that would involve the police.

I just can't believe the attorney is allowing this to go on. Of course, He only does what the the board member asks him to. I'm sure if a the board member says. what can the board do if the office manager feels she is being harassed....

the answer an attorney gives obviously dependent on what question is asked. kwim.

augustin, i may try and upload the letter but first black out any identifying information...

Laska,

I don’t get it ...

Are you directing the management company in any way? This is the pres job, on behalf of the board.

We’re you authorized by the board to direct the management company in any way?

Has the pres told you to stop interacting with the MC?

Have you been warned at board meetings, with broad consent, not to direct the management company?

Were you told, by the board, via a legal vote, to not direct the management company? (this would be a formality at this point)

If, after all of this, you still continued to attempt to direct the management company (other than asking questions about your account, or other generic status of amenities questions), then it seems reasonable the board would seek to restrict your interactions. Imagine the discussion between the pres and the MC ... “...look, this person is disruptive, burns our time, and makes us run around in circles ...”

Think about from the MC perspective ...

Are you burning everyone’s time and making them crazy, Laska?

Based on her posts. I for one believe she is guilty as charged.

Yes that may be the case. However, the relationship still stands. The person doesn't work directly for any member of the HOA. They work for the HOA board. Communication then should go to the board for them to direct what they want the MC to do. Skipping this step doesn't bold well.

Probably splitting some hairs, here.

The board is elected to represent the association. The board elects officers. One of those officers is the president. The president executes the basic agreed to functions of the community.

Yes. They answer to the ASSOCIATION NOT ASSOCIATION MEMBER INDIVIDUALLY. Just what George posted on hair splitting. I agree with John46 with having 1 POC with the MC. We did the same with any contact with our attorney. My position as President made me the POC with both the attorney and MC/Accountant.

A good example in our HOA. Our ex-President was a con-man scumbag. (That was being "nice") He often would go behind my back to the accountant to get checks for work he did. He was still on the board technically after I took over. I made it mandatory that we had to have 3 bids on projects even if we agreed he would do them. (He bid too). Due to a big cluster involving our flagpole and a fired lawncare provider we had to purchase a new one. He bid $300 to do the job. We agreed to that amount. Turns out the materials were going to be more expensive than his bid. (Typical of him...) He still had access to the HOA's credit card. (Wasn't aware). I found the extra difference put onto that card! Mind you we would have agreed to that difference but he would had to re-bid to re-approve.

So having someone like this constantly going to the Accountant made it a mess. The accountant was so used to and "trusted" him that they didn't question some of these expenses. They just assumed we had agreed to these things. Had to explain to the MC that was a no-no from now on. They were NOT to pay out a dime until a SIGNED contract was submitted.

Till got this practice stopped, it painted me in a very bad light. It also made the HOA look mismanaged. Going to a meeting and having my jaw drop as we went over expenses wasn't pretty. Having to explain why a $300 job ballooned to a $700 one without discussion made it look like back-door shenagins were going on. People then lose trust in their HOA and make up conspiracy theories.

Sure to all ... and, as related to this discussion ... still splitting hairs.

I don't think most of you get that having a manager who is an employee of the association is much different than if the manager were the employee of a management company.

When the manager is an employee of the association, they generally will have a office or two in a clubhouse. It is very common for them to have homeowners visit them, field questions, take down work orders that homeowners report, maybe ask for a report or something. I know of no association that puts restrictions on who actually can visit a manager who is an employee of the association. While they take director from a board of directors, they work and are paid for by the association and its homeowners. I've interviewed with association an a general manager and part of the job description was working with homeowners on a daily basis.

Having one person as the POC does pose a problem. The POC calls up the manager and says they need a tree cut down or work done on the property. The clause is many management's contracts and even attorneys. I never added that clause, for a reason. The president calls you up and says a tree needs to be removed. It cost $4000.00 to remove. The manager knows this needs approval as it is over the $500.00 limit placed on ikt by the contract.

I think in many situations, Laska's included, if a director questions anything pretty soon they will be completely left out of the loop, even having the attorney wrongly involved.

johnc77,, YES, exactly what you said. I guess I didn't realize that having an employee that is the property manager is that different than most condominiums.

Everything you said is exactly what has been happening.

Previously, the pres insisted that he needed to be the ONLY poc to the property manager(hoaemployee).. I repeatedly objected and said this is ridiculous, any board member can ask a question, or follow up on an issue. I did agree that the president or another designated board member should be the one to notify the property manager of board decisions. However, the real issue , the property manager wasn't coming to meetings. So none of the board had any idea what was going on. Whatever the president said was taken as fact.
Finally it blew up in the presidents face and the board voted to fire that property manager.

We hired the new property manager. Unfortunately, even though I had reservations about a few minor things. She said all the right things and initially seemed to be a godsend. UNTIL, weeks went by and the things she said she was going to take care of, were not taken care of. I tried to help her and show her the work order , work request documentation procedures that the hoa office was required to use. She would tell me she understood but then I found out that she was not using the procedures and processes at all.. there were no records of what was going on day in day out... Some things were getting done on the property but there were no records. Additionally, when the financials came out, I discovered that she had not been charging owners and residents as required for work done by the hoa on their behalf. This is part of the hoa income, For four months there was no income from owner chargebacks. Despite the maintenance staff continually responding to her phone calls to go check a dishwasher in this unit or go help with a garbage disposal replacement.

This was thousands of dollars a month that was not being collected. HOA resources were being used for the benefit of a single owner.

Every week I would discover additional issues. Not little things. these were BIG ISSUES. and when finally a special meeting of the board was called to discuss her 90 trial period, on the exact day the board met and all agreed there were serious issues. She sent the long email presenting herself as the victim and characterizing my repeated discoveries of mismanagement and missing funds as harassment ..

um.,

Regarding common area issues. I would follow up or make a request ... " eliz(property manager) can you please follow up getting the sprinkler system programmed. You said you were going to do this 2 weeks ago and it's still not done and the plants are dying"

The association DOES NOT have a management company, they have a manager who is an employee of the association.

And WHAT do you think?

Is that your opinion or fact about your MC? Because most MC aren't always contracted to deal with membership directly. Is that what their contract says?

Paste this link and find the first General Manager position. The employee is the association.

https://www.davis-stirling.com/Job-Market

We don't have a contract with a Management Company!. geez.

And I don't interact with the Manager all the time. When she was first Hired, I was the board member who interacted with her and was training her. That Changed on May 31. Now I don't deal with her as a board member at all.

We don't have a contract with a Management Company!. geez. We hired an employee is not a contractual positioin. She has a job description and and job requirements .

specifically, she is not keeping accurate records and documentation of the maintenance of the hoa and is not correctly charging owners back for work done on their behalf by the hoa full time employees. We have 2 Full time Ac certified technicians. Any service done on Ac's MUST be charged back to the homeowner. as each individual central air conditioner is the responsiblity of the owner.

George, If I did interact with the manager all the time , that would be one thing, But I don't.. so your what's the difference is a moot point.
I don't interact with the Manager all the time. When she was first Hired, I was the board member who interacted with her and was training her. That Changed on May 31. Now I don't deal with her as a board member at all. I don't tell her what to do. I have every right to report to the office if something is broken in the common areas that hasn't been addressed.

There is NO MC, just an employee!