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Commercial (?) Trailer

Started by BeckyW • 25 replies • 594 views

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BeckyW (Georgia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Our president runs a catering business. He has since parked a new, small enclosed trailer in his driveway. No commercial lettering, although we know it's for business purposes.

Per the Covenants, no commercial vehicles can be parked in the community and our county stats somewhat address the same. But unfortunately, our Covenants have a hole/omission that does NOT identify trailers parked in the driveway, although it does everything else. (attached)

Our president refuses to put on his board hat on this one and is threatening lawsuit against the HOA. The other board member and I well know it's used for his business, but he feels that with no lettering, he's Scott free. Yes, she and I can make a resolution to prevent trailers from being parked in the driveway, but our CAM says he will be grandfathered in.

Are we missing another way to handle this situation? TIA
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Many people don't understand grandfathering.

Grandfathering is not automatic.
It must be written into the rule/amendment.

For example: ADA compliance had zero grandfathering provisions. Simply a time limit to comply.

That said, I don't think it's appropriate to make a ruling to go after one individual.
BeckyW (Georgia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
We're not trying to go after one individual. There's two issues. He's the President and I feel he should set the example. The second is opening the door for any trailer that doesn't have commercial letting on it --- a "flat" bed that holds lawn mowing equipment, or a trailer that is used to haul another vehicle.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Well, unless the driveways are limited common area, the proper way to make such a restriction would be to amend the covenants.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
What is your state's definition of a commercial vehicle? You are defining commercial vehicle as anything used for business and the state does not. You have to use the state's definition not your own. If you don't want trailers change the documents.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamE2 on 08/26/2020 4:55 AM
What is your state's definition of a commercial vehicle? You are defining commercial vehicle as anything used for business and the state does not. You have to use the state's definition not your own. If you don't want trailers change the documents.

Sam

You may find that state definitions do not work. One example. A car with a vinyl wrap sign is not considered a commercial vehicle in some states. In SC one can get commercial plates for their private car as those plates allow one to park in a loading zone for two hours like making two trips to bring things into your office.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Becky

Forget the fact you "allegedly know" he is using the trailer for his business and ask yourself if you did not "allegedly know" this, would parking of such a trailer be allowed in your association? If yes, I personally think you are being vindictive.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/26/2020 10:45 AM
Becky

Forget the fact you "allegedly know" he is using the trailer for his business and ask yourself if you did not "allegedly know" this, would parking of such a trailer be allowed in your association? If yes, I personally think you are being vindictive.

But John if they got a commercial plate they would be a commercial vehicle and would not be able to park in the HOA. That is my point DMV is responsible for deciding whether a vehicle is commercial or not just because it is being used for commerce does not make it a commercial vehicle.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
Would a car that is used for Uber or Doordash be allowed to be parked in the driveway?
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Uh, Sam,

If a vehicle without commercial plates is being used as a commercial vehicle, it is commercial vehicle.

Am I misinterpreting?
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BeckyW on 08/25/2020 3:28 PM
Our president runs a catering business. He has since parked a new, small enclosed trailer in his driveway. No commercial lettering, although we know it's for business purposes.

Per the Covenants, no commercial vehicles can be parked in the community and our county stats somewhat address the same. But unfortunately, our Covenants have a hole/omission that does NOT identify trailers parked in the driveway, although it does everything else. (attached)

Our president refuses to put on his board hat on this one and is threatening lawsuit against the HOA. The other board member and I well know it's used for his business, but he feels that with no lettering, he's Scott free. Yes, she and I can make a resolution to prevent trailers from being parked in the driveway, but our CAM says he will be grandfathered in.

Are we missing another way to handle this situation? TIA

Becky, you reference your covenants as well as county code (perhaps?) and indicate "(attached)". Did you intend to attach a document? It would be helpful to see exactly what your documents state (or fail to state) as well as what the county states in regard to vehicles, parking, and status as "commercial vehicles". Can you copy/paste or attach relevant docs?

That would help to provide guidance as to what you may or may not be able to do to amend docs and/or create a resolution to try and do what you want to do.

Also curious as to what other trailers may already be parked w/in your HOA (in driveways, garages, and/or on streets). What has you Board done or failed to do in regard to these trailers? Or is this the first trailer ever parked in your HOA?
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/27/2020 6:37 AM
Uh, Sam,

If a vehicle without commercial plates is being used as a commercial vehicle, it is commercial vehicle.

Am I misinterpreting?

You are interpreting in a way fits your agenda which, by my understanding of the situation, is not supported by the OP's documents. Sam is interpreting in a defensible, enforceable way that is currently supported by existing state definitions of commercial vehicles.

Using your logic, a homeowner uses a trailer for non-commercial purposes for 10 straight years . . . making it a non-commercial trailer. A friend borrows it and uses it to bring business supplies to his workplace, and the trailer suddenly transitions to a commercial vehicle from that point forward? Or is there some other percentage of use where this transition occurs?
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
If your HOA documents don't identify trailers as commercial vehicles, then the city/county/state/etc definitions apply. If they classify them as commercial vehicles, you can treat them as such, but if not, you can't unless you change your governing docs to define them that way. The other route would be to change your docs to prohibit trailers across the board for whatever use.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/27/2020 6:37 AM
Uh, Sam,

If a vehicle without commercial plates is being used as a commercial vehicle, it is commercial vehicle.

Am I misinterpreting?

Well, by this definition, anyone with a company car would be using a commercial vehicle, regardless of plates or markings. It's too broad to be workable.
BeckyW (Georgia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts..... will put those in the think tank!
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Tim,

I think I can make sense of this situation - no problem.

And, I also believe a company car is not a commercial vehicle - even if it has plates purchased by a company - it is, to me, a car being used for basic transportation. It is not a towing vehicle, it is not adorned with wrap or company paint, it is not a truck with wrap or company paint or paint racks to plumbers racks or electrician equipment or welder generators and welders, etc - and, it is not a trailer.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimM11 on 08/27/2020 9:38 AM
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/27/2020 6:37 AM
Uh, Sam,

If a vehicle without commercial plates is being used as a commercial vehicle, it is commercial vehicle.

Am I misinterpreting?


Well, by this definition, anyone with a company car would be using a commercial vehicle, regardless of plates or markings. It's too broad to be workable.

I think you are misinterpreting. I think it depends how the vehicle is registered unless the HOA documents define it differently.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I would think this is a matter of what he vehicle is, and especially how it looks.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/29/2020 5:04 AM
I would think this is a matter of what he vehicle is, and especially how it looks.

And that is exactly why you need to have definitions of word and phrases. If there are no definitions in the document than you go with the DMV definition. I agree with your logic but we are a nation of laws not logic.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Right now there is an unmarked, panel truck with ladders on the roof parked across the street from my house. The van does not have commercial plates on it. There is also a Cadillac CTS (sedan) parked in the driveway that does have commercial plates on it.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
I am surprised that your governing documents are so vague. Typically governing documents spell out, boats, RV's, Trailers etc. governing documents also give a generous time limit on how long a boat, camper, RV and trailer can be parked in the street or in the driveway.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 08/29/2020 11:26 AM
I am surprised that your governing documents are so vague. Typically governing documents spell out, boats, RV's, Trailers etc. governing documents also give a generous time limit on how long a boat, camper, RV and trailer can be parked in the street or in the driveway.

If referring to my post prior to yours, what I was showing is that is some states commercial plates on a vehicle do not make it a commercial vehicle as far as an association is concerned. The ype vehicles you mention are easy enough to distinguish regardless of DMV plate designation.

As per the OP, she did not say the type trailer an owner had parked in his driveway was prohibited by the docs.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Good point re OP.

Most HOAs forbid any trailer, but it wasn’t clear from the OP.

And, Sam, yep, in a perfect world, but there would be far fewer court cases if wording was as clear as you reference. A good HOA attorney could probably offer some advice wrt likely court outcome - sometimes ya gotta go down this path.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/29/2020 2:08 PM
Posted By LetA on 08/29/2020 11:26 AM
I am surprised that your governing documents are so vague. Typically governing documents spell out, boats, RV's, Trailers etc. governing documents also give a generous time limit on how long a boat, camper, RV and trailer can be parked in the street or in the driveway.


If referring to my post prior to yours, what I was showing is that is some states commercial plates on a vehicle do not make it a commercial vehicle as far as an association is concerned. The ype vehicles you mention are easy enough to distinguish regardless of DMV plate designation.

As per the OP, she did not say the type trailer an owner had parked in his driveway was prohibited by the docs.

Exactly, I worked as a courier about 16 years ago, I registered my passenger vehicle as a "truck" for the sole benefit of parking in a loading zone in downtown.

That did not stop the police in a suburb from giving me a ticket for driving in a no truck zone. The judge agreed with my argument that the term truck was vague and the original intent was to prohibit vehicles over a "X" gross vehicle weight.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/26/2020 10:45 AM
Forget the fact you "allegedly know" he is using the trailer for his business and ask yourself if you did not "allegedly know" this, would parking of such a trailer be allowed in your association? If yes, I personally think you are being vindictive.
I favor JohnC46's response above. Particularly in this pandemic with the economy taking a toll on so many of us.

This topic is very much like those topics discussing covenants prohibiting pickup trucks in driveways. Many such covenants date to over 25 years ago when pickup trucks simply were not popular and when fewer people were running their own businesses. At least one state's appeals court has said such covenants (prohibiting pickup trucks) are unreasonable on their face today and ruled them to be unlawful.

I think this situation is similar. I think I am mostly a law-and-order type when it comes to covenants, but if I were on the OP's board, and especially in the current economy, on this point I would be generous, both to this HOA president-director and to other owners.

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