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RobertaT1 (Washington)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Board meetings are on ZOOM for the time being. Our HOA president gives each homeowner in regular meetings three minutes to present a concern. Then cuts him off. Now the meetings are on Zoom she said that at the three minute mark she will just mute the speaker. This boards has HOA meetings only four times a year so as you can Imagine, the homeowners have lots to bring up.

Is it usual for the management company to attend these meetings as de facto board members? They interject their opinions and suggestions as though they are in fact board members. For instance, a burning issue right now is where to place a LITTLE
FREE LIBRARY. The management company, not the board said it must be in someones LCA so the HOA will not be responsible for it. The board currently has no secretary so the management company Takes the minutes. The MC also Writes the agendas for the meetings. I think this is over reach by the board. What do you think?

Is there an on line forum this can be presented to for a wider audience to offer their take on this and suggestions on how to handle the management companies incursions into community business?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertaT1 on 08/15/2020 6:52 AM
Board meetings are on ZOOM for the time being. Our HOA president gives each homeowner in regular meetings three minutes to present a concern. Then cuts him off. Now the meetings are on Zoom she said that at the three minute mark she will just mute the speaker. This boards has HOA meetings only four times a year so as you can Imagine, the homeowners have lots to bring up.
I think a member who has something important to say most certainly should be able to condense this to three minutes. Any member interested in change should get a copy of the membership list and start her or his campaign to get on the board.

Your HOA President is violating no law of which I know. Furthermore, Washington HOA and condo statutes do not appear to require the President to allow owner commentary during board meeting sessions.

Quote:
Posted By RobertaT1 on 08/15/2020 6:52 AM
Is it usual for the management company to attend these meetings as de facto board members? They interject their opinions and suggestions as though they are in fact board members.
As long as the manager is not actually casting a vote at board meetings, it's pretty common for managers to weigh in. After all, managers oversee the day-to-day operations and have a lot of information at their fingertips that directors do not have. I grant I personally would be annoyed if I felt a manager was less than honest in her or his statements; self-promoting her- or himself through lies (so as to get a renewed contract or good annual evaluation). But I doubt anything unlawful is going on here. As I note above, I think the remedy for your and your group's concerns is to get on the board with a like-minded majority.

Quote:
Posted By RobertaT1 on 08/15/2020 6:52 AM
For instance, a burning issue right now is where to place a LITTLE FREE LIBRARY. The management company, not the board said it must be in someones LCA so the HOA will not be responsible for it.
This response is 100% correct. You must become acquainted with what your HOA's Declaration says about converting any common area to a use not designated in the governing documents.

I see your all-caps emphasis of "little" and "free" and "library." The unstudied might think, "Oh what a grand idea for our little non-profit corporation!" But said little non-profit corporation absolutely does not have as its legal mission the literacy of its members.

I think too many HOA/condo members think a board's job is to be "wise" and otherwise, do whatever they think is wise. Not so. Boards are highly constrained by the HOA's/Condo's governing documents, state law, case law and sometimes, federal law. Directors must be wise within these constraints.
Quote:
Posted By RobertaT1 on 08/15/2020 6:52 AM
The board currently has no secretary so the management company Takes the minutes. The MC also Writes the agendas for the meetings. I think this is over reach by the board. What do you think?
I do not think the Board is breaking the law, with one caveat: The President and MC should pretty much agree to put on the agenda any item which a director requests.
Quote:
Posted By RobertaT1 on 08/15/2020 6:52 AM
Is there an on line forum this can be presented to for a wider audience to offer their take on this and suggestions on how to handle the management companies incursions into community business?
In my experience it would be best to use one of the many free online web services and start your own site. You are entitled to have a copy of the membership list, including mailing addresses and in some states, email addresses. After putting your web site together, you can mail all owners once with a few bullet-pointed concerns and then suggest they check out the web site.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertaT1 on 08/15/2020 6:52 AM
Board meetings are on ZOOM for the time being. Our HOA president gives each homeowner in regular meetings three minutes to present a concern. Then cuts him off. Now the meetings are on Zoom she said that at the three minute mark she will just mute the speaker. This boards has HOA meetings only four times a year so as you can Imagine, the homeowners have lots to bring up.

Is it usual for the management company to attend these meetings as de facto board members? They interject their opinions and suggestions as though they are in fact board members. For instance, a burning issue right now is where to place a LITTLE
FREE LIBRARY. The management company, not the board said it must be in someones LCA so the HOA will not be responsible for it. The board currently has no secretary so the management company Takes the minutes. The MC also Writes the agendas for the meetings. I think this is over reach by the board. What do you think?

Is there an on line forum this can be presented to for a wider audience to offer their take on this and suggestions on how to handle the management companies incursions into community business?

It is very common for the management company to attend HOA board meetings and have strong input. They manage the property and the board consults with the manager to provide board oversight. For a request like a "little library," their input should be sought by the board. From what you report, the manager's recommendation for private property installation is solid advise from a property management perspective.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
The board may only meet four times a year, but that doesn't mean you or any homely with an issue can't write a letter or send an email. Resident forums are great, but as AugustinE said, homeowners should be able to speak their piece within three minutes, especially if you have several homeowners who also have something to say.

It's ok for property managers to give an opinion- in fact, I like to hear what they have say because they manage the association's daily operations and may have insights the board should be aware of. Beyond that, it's up to the BOARD to do its job - deliberate and make decisions. A good property manager can make a suggeztion, but then keep quiet and let the board game over. If it turns out to be the wrong one, it's up to the board to fix it, learn from it and move on.

There are some boards, however who tend to let the property manager do all of their thinking for them and if that's what yours seems to be doing, your beef is with them and you need to speak up. Perhaps encourage your neighbors to do the same.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 08/15/2020 12:22 PM
The board may only meet four times a year, but that doesn't mean you or any homely with an issue can't write a letter or send an email. Resident forums are great, but as AugustinE said, homeowners should be able to speak their piece within three minutes, especially if you have several homeowners who also have something to say.

It's ok for property managers to give an opinion- in fact, I like to hear what they have say because they manage the association's daily operations and may have insights the board should be aware of. Beyond that, it's up to the BOARD to do its job - deliberate and make decisions. A good property manager can make a suggeztion, but then keep quiet and let the board game over. If it turns out to be the wrong one, it's up to the board to fix it, learn from it and move on.

There are some boards, however who tend to let the property manager do all of their thinking for them and if that's what yours seems to be doing, your beef is with them and you need to speak up. Perhaps encourage your neighbors to do the same.

Well said.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with Sheila, Augustin & Kelly. The BEST way to find out, Roberta, is to request a copy of the contract between the MC & your HOA and see what you're paying for. I promise you that if the MC' prop. mgr. didn't write the minutes, prepare thee agenda (with or prez), etc. no one owl serve on our Board.

Your write "4 HOA meetings" a year. Are you speaking of Board meetings? Or of members (Owners) meetings? There is a lost of confusion between the two. Read your Bylaws to see the difference.

We only allow 2 minute & 11 topic per owner at the open forum portions of our board meetings ( we hold at the beginning and at the end.) Owners do have another chance to speak at open forum after all others have had a turn. Wee discourage maintenance complaints as they should go to the Prop. Mgr. If not handled in a reasonable amount of time, an owners could bring up the delay at a board meeting.

What size is your HOA, Roberta?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Allow members to speak whenever they want leads to pandemonium. Limit them to a specific time (say 2 minutes) and place such at the beginning and end of as BOD Meeting. Never allow them to speak during the meeting unless called on by the BOD.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Always find it funny when someone doesn't like a 3 minute rule of speaking. Ever try to speak for 3 minutes and make a point? Had to make 5 - 10 minute speeches in Speech class in college. It took a week to write a compressive speech with a beginning, end, and making a point. Doing it on the fly? Please your just rambling after 2 minutes...

Former HOA President
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Hi again Roberta!

I don't know a single manager who enjoys taking minutes. But if the board refuses to have an officer do it, or requests that it be part of the contract, we are stuck with the job. Same for making agendas. It's rare that the manager actually sets the agenda - she may do the physical typing, but the board will tell her what they want to discuss. Some things end up on the agenda without anyone needing to say "put this on the agenda" - contract renewals, delinquencies, hearings, etc. It's just assumed that they are on the agenda because these issues must be decided on at a meeting.

Three minutes is a generous time for owners to talk. Your board members are volunteers. They can't spend four hours in a meeting so that every resident who wants to can talk as long as they want about whatever they want, it's just not reasonable.

Managers are typically at meetings. It's usually in the contract that they be present, and most boards expect them to be. Usually the manager has been given tasks, and the meeting is where she can report on those tasks I promise you, your manager has no interest in denying you a Little Free Library just to be mean. She just provided facts. If it's on HOA property the it becomes a maintenance obligation to the association. That's not saying yes or no to it, that's saying if you want it, here's the deal. Your board of directors still makes the decisions. If you think they aren't doing a good job of that, run for the board in the next election.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our MC contract does not call for our MC to attend BOD Meetings. Unless a BOD is inept, I see no reason for the MC to be at all BOD Meetings.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/17/2020 11:23 AM
Our MC contract does not call for our MC to attend BOD Meetings. Unless a BOD is inept, I see no reason for the MC to be at all BOD Meetings.

Okay. Every company I've worked for has it in their contracts and I've only had one or two boards that didn't expect me to be at every one. I agree I did not need to be at most of them, especially when it entailed driving 60 miles out to the property and back and not getting home til 11pm on a weeknight. I was speaking from my experience and clearly yours is different.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
It depends, JohnC, on what the Board wants from an MC. I'm guessing the more complex an HOA is, the more likely the Board will want and need full-time onsite service from an MC. Complexity isn't just amenities, but also mechanical equipment, elevators, boilers, generators, pressurization fans, fire pumps etc. So we, for instance, have over 80 comments on our reserves study.

I think you've described yours as having few if any amenities with maybe 100 or fewer homes. The major "issue" and contract is landscaping.

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