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SaraG1 (Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I am the brand spanking new Member of an HOA for a 70 home community. The meeting at which I was appointed was attended by me and the other board members. Then the next night there was another meeting attended by the board and the property manager. I am just starting to really cozy up to the guidance documents about meetings. I can't figure out if it was even correct to have what was, as far as I could see, not one but two meetings that were never advertised to the homeowners.
These were meetings that were called to order, with motions made, etc.
Did I mention, I am new at this! Just trying to learn what is right and wrong and not exactly feeling like I've got any mentors among the fellow board members.
Thanks.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
What matters is your state's laws governing HOAs and COAs. Many states have some kind of notice requirements for board meetings - others such as mine do not, which means that boards can conduct meetings in closed sessions or even via email. I expect somebody will soon chime in with chapter and verse of your state's laws, so you'll know whether your meetings are a problem or not.

Congrats on becoming a board member, by the way. :-) If this is your first rodeo, you have a real learning curve ahead of you. It's normal to spend your first year in a mild panic and wondering what the dickens you've gotten yourself into.

Cathy's Three Minute Guide to Serving on a Community Association Board:

* Learn your governing documents (aka, CC&Rs and bylaws) backwards, forwards and sideways.

* Educate yourself about your responsibilities. There are many resources on the web, such as the ones provided by Community Associations Network: https://communityassociations.net/. The Associations tab has a list of items that will give you an overview of what board members should know. The Latest News & Articles tab will have some eye-opening and occasionally entertaining things as well.

* Know the hierarchy of laws governing HOAs and COAs: federal law supersedes state law which supersedes local municipality law which supersedes your community's governing docs which supersedes any rules and regulations your board may enact.

* At some point you should read your state's laws. Most associations' governing docs comply with state law, but occasionally you may have an older community whose CC&Rs no longer are completely up to date.

* Develop a thick skin if you don't currently have one.

* Behave professionally and always act in the best interests of your association.

Welcome to the gang!

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
OK, here's what I found and it looks like Virginia is an open meeting state and requires notice to the membership.

This is from Chapter 26, "Property Owners' Association Act" (https://vacode.org/55/26/3/):

A. All meetings of the board of directors, including any subcommittee or other committee thereof, shall be open to all members of record. The board of directors shall not use work sessions or other informal gatherings of the board of directors to circumvent the open meeting requirements of this section. Minutes of the meetings of the board of directors shall be recorded and shall be available as provided in subsection B of § 55-510.

B. Notice of the time, date and place of each meeting of the board of directors or of any subcommittee or other committee thereof shall be published where it is reasonably calculated to be available to a majority of the lot owners. A lot owner may make a request to be notified on a continual basis of any such meetings which request shall be made at least once a year in writing and include the lot owners’ name, address, zip code, and any e-mail address as appropriate. Notice of the time, date, and place shall be sent to any lot owner requesting notice (i) by first-class mail or e-mail in the case of meetings of the board of directors or (ii) by e-mail in the case of meetings of any subcommittee or other committee of the board of directors. Notice, reasonable under the circumstances, of special or emergency meetings shall be given contemporaneously with the notice provided members of the association’s board of directors or any subcommittee or other committee thereof conducting the meeting.

One exception: if the board must discuss confidential items, they meet in what is called Executive Session. This is not open to the membership. You can find more about Executive Session and what topics may discussed under "Meetings of the Board of Directors" at the link above.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sara,

There is a lot of open source material to provide the education you need to be a fiduciary for a not for profit corporation - an HOA.

Please spend a few hours reading - it will pay many dividends.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I believe our Articles of Incorporation or maybe CC&R's had the meeting schedule in them. It was set up for the 2nd Thursday each month. So 1 monthly meeting for all to attend. It wasn't necessarily "advertised" because it was built into our structure. I would put signs out at the mailbox at the front entrance. However, it was kind of a known thing after awhile that 2nd Thursday come on down.

Former HOA President
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Sara
Study Sessions are often held by boards and then the Board Meeting another time, shortly after.

Both must be noticed to the general membership.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I think Virginia is very clear on notice requirements for board meetings.

Melissa - whether or not it is known from a published schedule or calendar, most states have specific instructions for notice.

I’ve never heard of a Study Sessions for boards.
DeidreB (Virginia)
Posts: 113
Posted:
Your instincts are correct. The Virginia Property Owner's Association Act requires notice prior to all meetings of the board where a quorum is present (notice includes meeting agenda). I will provide a link below and Cathy covered this quite well. Your By Laws will likely address this too.

For what it's worth, I have served on multiple boards in the state of Virginia and my biggest challenge in all was getting the Boards to recognize and accept the open meeting requirements and adopt those related By Laws and legally required measures. But the good news is that once adopted, the governance of the association immediately improved exponentially. Transparency yields accountability, trust and enthusiasm. Good luck!

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodepopularnames/property-owners-association-act/
SaraG1 (Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks so much for the replies and information. I am keenly aware that I do indeed have a steep learning curve ahead. At least for the moment, I am ready for the challenge. Too much time on my hands thanks to COVID!
So, I was kind of "tricked" into attending these meetings that were really not kosher. No time machine here, so what am I to do from here on out?
Insist on all meetings being advertised per the law? The remaining members would constitute a quorum so can't they just meet without me if they're p.o.'d that I am trying to enforce the rules?
Seems to me, upon cursory inspection, that a lot has gone on that is not above-board. I don't want to be a tempest in a teapot but I have to respect the rules as written. My ability to compel my other board members to do the same? Questionable.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SaraG1 on 08/14/2020 7:16 AM
I don't want to be a tempest in a teapot but I have to respect the rules as written.
Nationwide the cognitive dissonance of which you speak is a common occurrence for HOA directors on boards that are not following the most basic of laws.

Quote:
Posted By SaraG1 on 08/14/2020 7:16 AM
My ability to compel my other board members to do the same? Questionable.
I hear you, and I expect you are correct. From experience: Forget about 'compelling.' Politely make a request as follows: In writing, ask for this subject (open meetings, including proper, lawful notice) to be put on the agenda. Document any response you get. If the subject goes on the agenda, appear at the meeting with a copy of the statute section (which CathyA3 kindly referenced). Ask a board majority to agree to proper notice of meetings and doing meetings by Zoom, so owners may attend online. If the board ultimately refuses to follow this most basic and extremely important law, I think I would have to resign. After resigning, I would pursue a formal complaint with the Virginia Ombudsman. For help with filing a complaint, see:

http://www.dpor.virginia.gov/CIC-Ombudsman/
and
https://www.vahoalaw.com/complaint-procedures/can-owners-submit-complaint-common-interest-community-cic-board#more-2292

Document all exchanges you have with the board on this subject. Stay un-emotional. Be all about 'just the facts.' The facts speak loudly all by themselves. (If you know all this already, then I beg your pardon.)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Ned o add to George's noe about so-calle "study sessions." In CA and I think VA, they must be open to owners if a quorum of the board is meeting at them.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sara,

Have you read your CCRs, Articles of Incorporation, Rules and Regs (if any), Virginia statutes, past minutes of Board of Director meetings, financial statements, past annual members meeting minutes?

Have you spoken with neighbors in the community about their concerns?

Have you read or watched any videos produced by CAI or other HOA education organizations?
SaraG1 (Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Good afternoon, thanks for all the great ideas! NKOTB means "New Kid on the Block" and as I mentioned, I am a brand new memer-at-large. The circumstances of my appointment were rather extraordinary, such that I didn't exactly have time to prepare and study up. So, to answer your queries: no, no, and no. But I'm certainly working on it!
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sigh ... this is a single evening’s read.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I disagree with George, Sara. Given the numerous documents he mentioned, it will take much longer than an evening. Here's why:

Much of the language will be unfamiliar to you. Your covenants (aka: CC&Rs; declaration deed restrictions) may have nice glossary in the front that defines these for yuo.

Suggest you read your rules next as they usually are the easiest to comprehend.

Then board meeting minutes and owners annual meeting minutes.

Maybe next, the Bylaws.

Then the covenants. Don't know about yours but ours are 100 pages long, partly due to the legalese in them, takes most folks quite a while to read them.

I'd ask the treasurer or property mgr. to help you with understanding your "financials." Included, maybe review your HOA's reserves with this person.

I'd as also ask an experienced director or your PM to tell the the statute #s in VA that apply to your HOA.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Kerry is way nicer than I 😀

I have heard so many Board members comment so incorrectly on so many things for so long, with every excuse possible for not having read for a couple of hours.

Learn your docs, then check back in.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I can't tell you how many times I've read our Declaration and Bylaws. I have good working knowledge of what they say. But exact wording matters with this stuff, and I've had to go back numerous times to check exactly what specific sections say - "shall" vs. "may", or whether there is qualifying language such as "unless specified elsewhere", or to quote a passage if someone wants to argue about the meaning.

There are pitfalls for the unwary. :-)
SaraG1 (Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
George,
My answer to your query really should have been "yes, no, no." I was typing on my phone and trying to deal with something else at the time I was replying to your post.
I've read all the bylaws, the CC& R's, the VA Property Owners Act, etc. I must say, if the documents associated with your neighborhood are so simple and straightforward for you that they can be completely absorbed, understood, and recited with one reading...well, I envy you! Obviously my skills are inferior to yours.
I appreciate all of your suggestions, but I resent your suggestion that I don't have the "right" to post my question until I completed your checklist. As far as I can tell, that is what a "forum" is for, and my question was no more or less inappropriate than any of the others I saw posted before joining HOA Talk.
Thanks for the warm welcome.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
This isn't about rights, Sara.

Sooooo many of those posting asking for help have almost nothing to understand their circumstances in their HOA - much like sooooo many of the folks in my neighborhoods have done almost nothing, but still rant and rave about "the way things are."

I ask each the same question - have you read the governing documents? Most get mad - because they haven't read anything.

I'm sorry that my answer caused such resentment - it was meant only to remind you to do your homework first - which will allow us to be more effective at helping you understand

And, I need to point out that all I had to go on was your response that you had not read your governing docs.

And, I need to point out that all I asked was if you had "read" you governing docs - not that you understood them.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I again disagree with George. When folks are new to HOAs or are finally interested in their HOA where they've reside for a while, they often do not know what they should read or where to start in educating themselves. There are a lot of paperers in their file from when they closed on their home.

To me, posters expressing a willingness to learn is what matters. And, Sara, some here even will look things up for you and give you the sites where you can learn more.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Sara,

Since you are in Virginia, Fairfax County developed a guide.
It's a good place to start and see how Associations should be ran.

Typically, it's not how Associations are actually ran, but a good goal.

Hope it helps:

The Fairfax County Community Association Guide
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Perhaps you can share that link with all your board members as a "look what I found" item.
Then mention that within that document it mentions that meetings need to be noticed to the members and ask them if you are reading it correctly.

The approach "I'm trying to learn" vs. "you are doing it wrong" tends to be more receptive to others.
SaraG1 (Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Tim,
That's a very helpful suggestion. I agree, in an effort to improve how things are going with my board, I should avoid running roughshod over them with a "I've never done this before but I'm sure I know better than you!" attitude.

Honey + flies > vinegar + flies

Lat night, I was chatting with one of my new fellow board members and I casually asked "Say, do we have a regular meeting schedule? Once a month or anything like that?" And he said "Nah...if J*** wants a meeting, or S** wants a meeting, they just kind of email the rest of us." And by the "rest of us" it was pretty apparent he did NOT mean "all the owners in the neighborhood."

I am confident that we can get this straightened out, and many thanks for the advice of those folks on this forum who are helpful.

I'm sure I will be asking for more information as I get my feet wet.
SaraG1 (Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Kerry,
Thanks for the encouragement. I am a keen learner and no slouch at research; so when I post a question, it is just as likely to be for opinions about how to finesse an interpersonal issue with Board Members or residents as it is for factual information.
I sincerely hope I don't waste anyone's time asking for information that google could have provided!
All the best to you.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sara, see what your Bylaws say about when/how often board meetings should be held. If silent, VA state code for non-profits may say something.

See you Bylaws about who may call board meetings. If your Bylaws do not require regular board meetings on a certain schedule, quarterly is common, then it sounds like there needs to be special meetings of the board. Who is permitted to call these meetings. If your Bylaws are silent, this should be in VA state codes on non-profits (assuming you are one).

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