Owners with Violations now sending HOA Cease and Desist Letters with an Attorney

Started by NicoleO5 • 17 replies • 1285 views

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NicoleO5 (California)
Posts: 61

Posted:

Our HOA has had some real issues with a few of our owners. I con’t know if the Karen syndrome is rampant but is sure seems like it is.

We have have one owner who has several clear violations who has hired and attorney who has sent the HOA Board via email a cease and desist letter for harassment.

The violations in question are more than a few. Repetitive and witnessed, well documented.

The strange thing is this correspondence was sent via email to ONE board member vs. the proper channels. WHile this was sent forward to our manager and our attorney ( HOA) has any other HOA had to deal with this? Claims of harassement because rules are being enforced is crazy!!

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Well the good news is, if they have an attorney you no longer have to talk to them.

People are extremely cranky these days. This is a job that normally entails a certain level of abuse, but it's really off the charts lately.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Nicole

Turn the issue over to the associations attorney.

NicoleO5 (California)
Posts: 61

Posted:

Ms. Barbara CONCUR! It’s my dream not to have to deal with a PIA owner, but this is crazy isn’t it? I have no care handing it over to our attorney, but it’s the first I have seen this in 18 years with an HOA. People are off the hook nuts.

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562

Posted:

It is called DUE PROCESS

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 08/11/2020 10:54 AM
Turn the issue over to the associations attorney.

I agree. Also the board needs to inform the HOA's insurer. If the board does not turn this over to the HOA attorney and does not inform the insurer, the insurer may deny coverage if this member and his/her attorney goes to court.

For what it is worth: With your communications, try to be factual. Leave emotion out. Save the emotion for venting sessions with drinking buddies.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 08/11/2020 11:48 AM
Leave emotion out. Save the emotion for venting sessions with drinking buddies.

I concur. I'd tell that attorney to remind his client that when he loses the case he'll be on the hook for the HOA's legal expenses on top of his own.

Of course you can't really do that.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Who sent the letter? It sounds like free fire wood starter in my opinion. It is NOT called "harassment" if you are pursuing legal actions. Which in the HOA's case is sending letters of intent of legal action.

Plus the HOA isn't just one person. It's the entire membership. Meaning all the neighbors. So if they do have a lawyer they have a useless one full of hot air. Your HOA has the right to pursue legal actions and collections. So what if they threaten to sue? Let them. File a counter-suit. Simple as that. I wouldn't bow down to this.

Former HOA President

NicoleO5 (California)
Posts: 61

Posted:

I am not bowing down to this. The legal advice is they are trying to intimidate and harass the HOA. When you have video of both of the named clients doing exactly what they were notified of, they are just not getting it. Both parties ( two owners) have been called on the carpet for ongoing issues. ALL can be supported by witnesses and video! Its looney waste of everyone’s time.

I am grateful we have an excellent attorney on retainer.

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Nicole,

First, you NEVER tell an insurer that you have a potential legal case brewing with an owner, because they WILL drop you like a hot potato.

Second, your board needs to know how to play well with others.

There are two case I can recall. In one, an association had a neighbor to neighbor dispute that they sent to their attorney and it cost the association $250K in cash. In a second instance, an association was proposing to update their CCRs used their common area to post their support, but denied others opposing the changes the use of the common area. They also hired an attorney and lost. It cost them over $250K and it is now published law.

NicoleO5 (California)
Posts: 61

Posted:

While I do understand what is being said. The violations that I am not able to post here are substantial. They are easily supported by witnesses, and video. None the less I understand about the need to play well with others. The issue here is one owner who is not playing nice is trying to be immune from rule enforcement by screaming harassement. I doubt their attorney is aware of this side of the story with the evidence. etc.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC77 on 08/11/2020 3:49 PM
First, you NEVER tell an insurer that you have a potential legal case brewing with an owner, because they WILL drop you like a hot potato.

Lie, based in ignorance. The OP's board should review its contract and then, if questions remain, contact the insurer.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 08/11/2020 1:45 PM
I'd tell that attorney to remind his client that when he loses the case he'll be on the hook for the HOA's legal expenses on top of his own.

Of course you can't really do that.

This is a California dispute. The Davis-Stirling statute at California Civil Code 5975 (c) states: "In an action to enforce the governing documents, the prevailing party shall be awarded reasonable attorney’s fees and costs."

The interested reader may want to review the following:

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-5975

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Attorneys-Fees

I think this is a powerful incentive for California HOA members and boards to be sure they are on the correct side of the law.

NicoleO5 (California)
Posts: 61

Posted:

Thank you so much. The violations at hand are real and can be supported. The good news is we know what you shared already. I have been in the HOA BOARD arena 15 years. I have never seen an owner get an atty involved for harassement because they are not following our own governing documents.

GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC77 on 08/11/2020 3:49 PM
Nicole,

First, you NEVER tell an insurer that you have a potential legal case brewing with an owner, because they WILL drop you like a hot potato.

Second, your board needs to know how to play well with others.

There are two case I can recall. In one, an association had a neighbor to neighbor dispute that they sent to their attorney and it cost the association $250K in cash. In a second instance, an association was proposing to update their CCRs used their common area to post their support, but denied others opposing the changes the use of the common area. They also hired an attorney and lost. It cost them over $250K and it is now published law.

You have to inform your insurance company if threatened with a law suit. I don't know where you got your information.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

the insurer may or may not defend the association.

OUR association was sued and one of the cases did not come under the specifications of coverage of our policy.
The associations insureance policy and directors and officers policy will determine whether a defense is provided..

if the owner is sueing the hoa board in an effort to have the declaration and bylaws properly enforced. I believe the insurance may not cover it. But of course, the board does have access to the hoa attorney so basically the hoa attorney will defend the suit and the hoa attorney is paid for out of common funds of the association..
it's a completely screwed up system,, owners have to use their own money to sue a board and the board uses owner money to defend.. most suits don't go to trial.
I spent the weekend reading different hoa case decisions. Many of the owners who tried to recoup the expenses they incurred were not reimbursed.. it's not always black and white who the prevailing party is in a case.

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