💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

SashaE1
Posts: 110
Posted:
Some HOA members received an anonymous e-mail from two HOA members saying that they want our pools to open ASAP. They said if others wanted it to to get a petition going and give it us Board members. One homeowner sent this to our PM. He said that we should have our attorney look at it. The homeowner petition consists of only 8 homeowners and we have over 400 members. Our pools are closed due to the Covid19 situation and the financial burden to follow the county orders. So liability concerns and financial constraints.
1. Is it illegal for homeowners to send anonymous emails to members of this nature? 2. Can a member who requests the membership list copy it and give it to another member or “lend” it to another member? 3. What do you all suggest we should do about this petition? We are in Monterey California. Thanks!!
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
First, of all, why would it be illegal? Personally, I hate anonymous whatever - if you're pissed off (especially at me), show yourself!

Second, there are only 8 people who signed this thing out of over 400. I imagine you're on the board and when you made the decision to close it, you explained all the stuff about the financial cost that would ensue to follow the county instruction, risk to everyone in contracting COVID19, yada, yada, yada. If you explained it and the vast majority went along with the board, you shouldn't have any problems.

As for the membership list, I would prefer that whoever requested it uses it properly, but that's part of the dilemma with making the list available to homeowners. There's no way you can control what the person does when he/she requests it and if several people made the list, how do you know who passed it along to who? How do you know if they even used the HOA list - even in a community your size, some people may be so passionate about an issue they will actually get out and do the legwork to gather the information. In this case, these are emails and so it's hard to know if all 400 people get this missive. Most of us have anti-spam that kicks the stuff out before it gets to the in-box or we use...common sense (don't recognize the email address? Don't open it - could be a phishing email or someone from who knows where trying to spread a virus).

The best you can do is let homeowners know what's required of the HOA by state law and give them the option to opt out of providing their emails and/or phone numbers.

Frankly, I've noticed this about several of your posts - you always seem to get riled up over things that aren't that complicated. If you're on the board and want to be effective, you really need to get ahold of yourself, stop overreacting, calm down, count to 10 (or 20 and maybe 50), think things through for a moment and THEN consider your options.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I would consider hate mail from eight of 400 to be praise!

2% against the actions of a Board?

I would feel honored.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
What Sheila and George said.

No, anonymous emails aren't illegal - how do you know who they came from, and how would you stop them even if they were illegal? Our rule of thumb is to ignore anything anonymous - if it isn't important enough to sign your name, then it isn't important.

Nationwide, the "RE-OPEN NOW!!!" crowd is actually a minority - they just make more noise. The responsible folks tend to be quiet and go about their business as best they can. Don't mistake noise for widespread support of those views.

Board members eventually develop thick skins and aren't shaken by nonsense like this. It does get better, although the silliness won't necessarily disappear. (Some of it does disappear, once the chronic complainers discover the board won't play their games.)
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SashaE1 on 08/09/2020 6:31 PM
Some HOA members received an anonymous e-mail from two HOA members saying that they want our pools to open ASAP. They said if others wanted it to to get a petition going and give it us Board members. One homeowner sent this to our PM. He said that we should have our attorney look at it. The homeowner petition consists of only 8 homeowners and we have over 400 members. Our pools are closed due to the Covid19 situation and the financial burden to follow the county orders. So liability concerns and financial constraints.
1. Is it illegal for homeowners to send anonymous emails to members of this nature? 2. Can a member who requests the membership list copy it and give it to another member or “lend” it to another member? 3. What do you all suggest we should do about this petition? We are in Monterey California. Thanks!!

1. I can't imagine a law prohibiting anonymous emails.
2. Generally, if someone obtains a document legally, they can share it. If the member list is private then the HOA should not give it out.
3. Assuming your governing documents don't address what to do with such petitions, I would address it at a board meeting to show that you considered the members' concerns but I would not change anything based on a petition from 2 percent of the members.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I would not be concerned with 8 out of 400. As said, 2%. That is just noise.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
No it's not illegal to email the board, circulate a petition, or share information with people who are also entitled to that information.

All the owners are doing really is trying to call for a special meeting to discuss the pool opening. Owners calling for special meetings is a situation provided for in your governing documents.

So what do your governing documents say about the required percentage of owners needed to petition for a special meeting? Is it whatever percentage 8 is of 400?

An appropriate response to the petition would be:

Thank you for forwarding this petition. Per the governing documents section whatever, in order to call a special meeting of the membership you must have signatures from X percentage of the membership. Once those signatures are received, the board has Y days to schedule the meeting, with Z days notice provided to all owners.

While I haven't read your docs, I've read enough to know that in all likelihood the process of getting signatures, calling the meeting, noticing the meeting and holding the meeting will exceed pool season, unless you have a year round pool. This doesn't have to be a crisis. Let the process work the way it was intended to.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/09/2020 7:28 PM
I would consider hate mail from eight of 400 to be praise!

2% against the actions of a Board?

I would feel honored.

I agree.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 08/10/2020 10:03 AM
No it's not illegal to email the board, circulate a petition, or share information with people who are also entitled to that information.

All the owners are doing really is trying to call for a special meeting to discuss the pool opening. Owners calling for special meetings is a situation provided for in your governing documents.

So what do your governing documents say about the required percentage of owners needed to petition for a special meeting? Is it whatever percentage 8 is of 400?

An appropriate response to the petition would be:

Thank you for forwarding this petition. Per the governing documents section whatever, in order to call a special meeting of the membership you must have signatures from X percentage of the membership. Once those signatures are received, the board has Y days to schedule the meeting, with Z days notice provided to all owners.

While I haven't read your docs, I've read enough to know that in all likelihood the process of getting signatures, calling the meeting, noticing the meeting and holding the meeting will exceed pool season, unless you have a year round pool. This doesn't have to be a crisis. Let the process work the way it was intended to.

You have to remember, Sasha is paranoid about their mail list. If left up to her, no one would get it.
SashaE1
Posts: 110
Posted:
Thanks for the information everyone. Good insights. Barbara, the percentage is 67%.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I do not think owners need 67% of them to sign a petition to hold a special meeting of the members as you replied to Barbara. (67% often is required to amend the CC&Rs) Please cite exactly what your Bylaws say on this topic. If not there, visit (I suggest again!) Davis-stirling.com and look at the Index for members meetings or something similar.

Did your Board ever fine the two men who were using the pool even though it's closed?

Yes, Owners may have a copy of the membership list. Period. They must make their request in writing and give a reason. You, of course, don't want them to have it for fear they'll send a letter to all owners complaining a bout the pool. So what? Iff your Board is following state an especially your county's directives on the pool, your board must do a goo job of explaining this to owners via a newsletter or email blast.

SashaE1
Posts: 110
Posted:
67% change CCRS, 5% to hold special meeting. The two men trespassing in the pool were sent a notice by the PM. I don’t care if they complain. PM and Board has sent all the info as to why the pool is closed. Asking cause I want to be informed on what’s the best thing to do as things keep developing. Thanks for helpful insights.
SashaE1
Posts: 110
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 08/10/2020 10:03 AM
No it's not illegal to email the board, circulate a petition, or share information with people who are also entitled to that information.

All the owners are doing really is trying to call for a special meeting to discuss the pool opening. Owners calling for special meetings is a situation provided for in your governing documents.

So what do your governing documents say about the required percentage of owners needed to petition for a special meeting? Is it whatever percentage 8 is of 400?

An appropriate response to the petition would be:

Thank you for forwarding this petition. Per the governing documents section whatever, in order to call a special meeting of the membership you must have signatures from X percentage of the membership. Once those signatures are received, the board has Y days to schedule the meeting, with Z days notice provided to all owners.

While I haven't read your docs, I've read enough to know that in all likelihood the process of getting signatures, calling the meeting, noticing the meeting and holding the meeting will exceed pool season, unless you have a year round pool. This doesn't have to be a crisis. Let the process work the way it was intended to.

This is great info! Thank you.
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Here is my recommendation;Go to the following website and print out the PDF. https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=007662639186451578979:zx5ty2rimbi&q=https://www.co.monterey.ca.us/Home/ShowDocument%3Fid%3D91012&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjk6pmau5HrAhVUnp4KHT1WAocQFjADegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw2xR_n0zjQDFcNeqn8-e650

Then find a vendor, with their costs, that can open the pool and comply with the regulation set forth by the County of Monterey.

Create a special assessment that must be passed by the membership to open and maintain the pool during the pandemic. They are paying for the pool, so they should have the legal right to open it if allowed. They will have to pay for the privilege. To pass a special assessment, it will require a majority of quorum.

In order to conduct a membership meeting, you will need 20 signatures on a petition specifically spelling out the objective of the meeting. Let democracy take its course.
SashaE1
Posts: 110
Posted:
Awesome. Will look into the link and getting this info together. Thanks John
SashaE1
Posts: 110
Posted:
The cost would about $58,000 for 8 weeks if we open it everyday for 7 hours daily to comply according to two of our vendors. Some homeowners said that other HOAS are having them bring their own sanitizers, and wipes and that this cost is not necessary. Did any of you guys open your pools by having release waivers and pool users to do their own disinfecting and monitor they social distance? How many of your pools are still closed and why? How many opened and which way is safest to do it in your opinion?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Our pool has never been closed. No extra cost for anything related to cleaning because there is no additional cleaning.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here