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SherryG1 (Montana)
Posts: 7
Posted:
We are a small HOA and I used my personal software license to create a spreadsheet as a tool to sort and summarize data to create the reports for the annual meeting.
I just resigned and turned over all the accounting records. The Board is requesting I provide them my excel spreadsheet file. I refused to do so and now the HOA attorney has sent me email demanding I turn over this spreadsheet or legal action will be taken against me. All the previous Treasurers never turned over any personal software files they used to create reports. Some previous Treasurers used excel and some used quicken.
I got nothing when I took over and had to go to the bank statements and create my own data file to be used for reporting.
After a week of harassment by this attorney, I finally forwarded him the emails that I had sent the Board of Directors with two attached excel files that I used for reporting. Once again, I received another demand letter to turn over my excel spreadsheet. Before I seek legal counsel, is this the normal process when a Treasurer resigns?
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SherryG1 on 08/09/2020 11:13 AM
We are a small HOA and I used my personal software license to create a spreadsheet as a tool to sort and summarize data to create the reports for the annual meeting.
I just resigned and turned over all the accounting records. The Board is requesting I provide them my excel spreadsheet file. I refused to do so and now the HOA attorney has sent me email demanding I turn over this spreadsheet or legal action will be taken against me. All the previous Treasurers never turned over any personal software files they used to create reports. Some previous Treasurers used excel and some used quicken.
I got nothing when I took over and had to go to the bank statements and create my own data file to be used for reporting.
After a week of harassment by this attorney, I finally forwarded him the emails that I had sent the Board of Directors with two attached excel files that I used for reporting. Once again, I received another demand letter to turn over my excel spreadsheet. Before I seek legal counsel, is this the normal process when a Treasurer resigns?

I'm very confused. Why can't you simply export the data to a comma or tab delimited file so they have the data? Also, why don't you give them the actual spread sheet? If you are no longer on the board why would you want it? Is this some type of Revenge?
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I may have misunderstood?

You created a spreadsheet to help you do your job as a volunteer - and, as a volunteer you are helping your community.

But, you don't want to share the software-based, formatted data sheet you developed?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/09/2020 11:17 AM
I may have misunderstood?

You created a spreadsheet to help you do your job as a volunteer - and, as a volunteer you are helping your community.

But, you don't want to share the software-based, formatted data sheet you developed?

Good question. Me thinks she is pi$$ed at the BOD.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
A file is a file is a file. Now you can go to the settings of the document in Excel I believe and change the author if it's a privacy thing. Believe it's under File in Office programs your running.

I don't see a problem with giving over an excel file. It's a record of the HOA and thus belongs with the HOA. Just because you used your personal equipment to create it doesn't make it yours. HOA's are mostly voluntary and most volunteers use their own equipment like computers to create records. We would pay back for any ink used to create documents Which means those documents are the HOA's even more if you ever got re-imbursed for creating them.

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Actually, unless there was a MOU/MOA of some sort, or specific mention in governing documents, or statute, Melissa, it would seem to me the file does belong to Sherry at this point.

The question is why would someone not WANT to assist the very organization they were volunteering to support, in maintaining or improving tracking, efficiency, standard look and feel, etc?
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/09/2020 11:32 AM
Actually, unless there was a MOU/MOA of some sort, or specific mention in governing documents, or statute, Melissa, it would seem to me the file does belong to Sherry at this point.

The question is why would someone not WANT to assist the very organization they were volunteering to support, in maintaining or improving tracking, efficiency, standard look and feel, etc?

Your right and it also doesn't explain why at a minimum she won't export the data and give it to them. Sounds like someone has an ax to grind.
SherryG1 (Montana)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you for your comments. Yes, you are correct. I am upset with the new Board of Directors. And yes, I did provide them my excel spreadsheet file. I'm not sure what the last attorney demand letter is about but I guess I will find out when I contact the attorney on Monday.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I've refused to hand over a couple of spreadsheets I developed for my HOA. The main reason is the very real possibility that whoever gets them will claim credit for them. In a real company, any creative material you come up with is a "work for hire" and your employer can legally claim ownership of it. I don't think that sort of intellectual property claim can be made when someone is a volunteer, unless there's a written understanding agreed to.

Another time I forwarded a spreadsheet to a board member that had something to do with a budget. The board member changed a critical amount in one cell of the spreadsheet that had negative reprecussions on the bottom line. Then he tried to throw me under the bus. "Don't blame me! I got it from Geno!"

Anything I create remains mine and the original stays under my control.

I would print the spreadsheet contents and give them that. I would also open the spreadsheet and export the data into another format and hand that over. Nobody gets my formulas, though. I've fixed too many formulas in spreadsheets I got from other people here than to risk giving someone else my own formulas that might themselves have errors. Not without proper inddemnification at the very least.
SherryG1 (Montana)
Posts: 7
Posted:
And the reasons you stated are exactly why I did not want to give them my file. If for any reason, the formulas are changed and the reports end up misstated, I will be blamed!
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Could you give them a read only file that could only be edited by you? I don't use excellent a lot, but I think if you click the totals cell, you'll see the formula pop up so they know where you got the numbers. I would send that to the attorney - if you send it as an attachment, you'll have a time and date stamp to protect yourself if the numbers change, you'll have it off of what you sent and the new board would have to explain how and why the numbers changed and who did it

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I think any changes are reflected in the information attached to the .xlsx file ... probably not a big deal
JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Legally, the association has no right to the file. If they want the data, recreate it on their dime!
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SherryG1 on 08/09/2020 12:02 PM
And the reasons you stated are exactly why I did not want to give them my file. If for any reason, the formulas are changed and the reports end up misstated, I will be blamed!

Perhaps, but have you ASKED why they want the file? If the association is about to undergo an audit, perhaps the auditor needs the information, and if so, it may be best that you and him/her have a discussion (a board member can sit in so there are no accusations of collusion). If previous treasurers provided the information whether it was on Excel or Quicken, you should already know why they did it - and if not, maybe you should talk to them. Why are you so scared someone will mess with the numbers?

I think the personalities are getting in the way of this issue, so if you don't think you and the new board can discuss this without a shouting match ensuing, it may be best that you have your own attorney address this.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
This could be one of the sillier issues I’ve seen in awhile.

I want my HOA to be successful.

While I haven’t been a treasurer, I’ve been prez, VP and secretary. I’ve created quality letterhead, published nice newsletters, built numerous spreadsheets, and built and manage a website, paying for it each year until reimbursed.

In each case, on leaving the positions, I collected all the data, including formats, put the products in a folder structured thumb drive, and/or DVD, and presented it to the incoming pres for them to take formal control, noting this in the minutes.

Why would anyone concerned about their neighbors and community want to withhold anything of utility?
SherryG1 (Montana)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Previous Treasurers have Not provided their data files. This is not about an audit. They want my file because they did not want to spend the effort to recreate their own file/reports and their attorney says the file belongs to the HOA. The legal question is does this file belong to me or the HOA?
Last thursday, I emailed the attorney two of my excel files; 2020-2021 Budget report;2019-2020 actuals vs budget report and worksheet and five year plan report. On Friday, the attorney demanded I turn over my excel worksheet file immediately.
I don't understand what more I can provide them. But again, my question, Am I legally required to provide them my excel files? Some say Yes, some say No.

JohnC77 (California)
Posts: 562
Posted:
The attorney is only playing the intimidation game. That is hold they operate. Send them the paper file and be done with it.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
What John said. Life's too short for this type of stuff. Send this stuff in an email - it'll be time and date stamped, and save it and your worksheet. That way you know what you sent and when, so if the information changes you know you weren't the one who changed it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
By the way, most of us aren't lawyers so if you want an answer to a legal question, talk to a lawyer.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Sherry,

In my opinion, anyone who holds office in an HOA should try to make it easier on those that follow.
Yes, you did a lot of work to create the spreadsheet (just as I did when I was treasurer of my Association).

I turned the spreadsheets over with the treasury files when I left.

I don't think the current treasurer has any idea on how to use them (based on financial reports).
However, you can only provide the water, you can't make others drink.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
It’s the INFORMATION that is required to be turned over, not necessarily your files.

Heck, the new treasurer may want to go back to file cards in a box, who knows.

But be generous. Give her the file. Whether she has the correct program to accept it And make it useable is their issue.

Watch out that you don’t burn bridges; you may have to cross over the river again.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I don't know if it's usual but I don't think it's unreasonable. Perhaps they want it to make it easier prepare reports in the future or to make it easier to determine where you got your numbers.

My guess is that the only thing that you are legally required to provide is the document in printed or pdf format. The attorney sending demand letters implies there is more to this. I don't see any reason not to give them the spreadsheets.

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