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LouH1 (Michigan)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Can a private codo Association's bylaws regarding renting/leasing supercede city law. Can we have a rule that allows only 2 unrelated people instead of 4 in a single family residence?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Those are legal questions, so you need to ask a private attorney. Most of us aren't lawyers and what's legal or not in my state may not be the same in yours - or there's no law on it at all.

You will find all sorts of conversations on this website about renters, rental restrictions, etc. Use the search function and you'll find old conversations to get you started (don't post a response if you haven't seen a recent reply). I live in a townhouse community and I'm not a fan of dozens of rentals, although the current group seem to be nice (now if only we can stop people from dumping mattresses and other old furniture in the dumpsters!)

And that's the heart of the matter. When you travel through the neighborhood, you shouldn't be able to tell if an owner or tenant lives there because everyone should be following the rules. There may or may not be implications for property values if you have too many renters (depending on who you ask), so you may want to focus on what makes for shitty neighbors and enforce rules related to that. There are obnoxious owners and tenants and if you make it clear what will and won't be tolerated, you may stand a good chance of getting good people wanting to live there.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
The law always prevails if it conflicts with your covenants or rules. The covenants and rules can be more restrictive than the law as long as they do not violate the law.

That being said, it is hard to imagine a court siding with the association if you try to control the relationships of the people living in a unit. I'm not sure what interest the association would have in doing so.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Check your local ordinances, they may address the number of unrelated adults living in a single family home - and local laws often have more "teeth" to them than HOA/COA restrictions do. I work for a new home builder and some years ago worked in a nearby community that did have such a restriction. I don't think they're uncommon, at least around here.

And if a homeowner leases his home, the tenants must also comply with the community's covenants and restrictions - the rules don't change simply because one is a tenant.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Cathy unfortunately tenants do NOT have to comply with the rules of the HOA UNLESS written in the lease agreement. The lease is signed between the member and the tenant, NOT the HOA. So the HOA has to enforce the rules violations of the tenant onto the Member. The member if did not put that clause in their lease, can NOT evict or punish their tenant. If they did put it in their lease as a condition, then they can follow the laws of eviction which can take a month to several months to evict.

You can not over look "Tenant's rights". Which means the owner's hands are tied by the law on evictions. They can't just toss someone out randomly. Where I live you have to give 2 14 working days notices to evict. Plus another 2 week for the Sheriff's office to come out to get things out if they still do not leave. A tenant can refuse to pay rent up to nearly a year in some cases and not be evicted in the right circumstance. Just a heads up when dealing with tenants in a HOA. It took me 5 months to evict my non-paying rule violating tenant in my HOA home.

Former HOA President
LouH1 (Michigan)
Posts: 214
Posted:
No, no, it has to do with defining a single family dwelling and attempts to rent it out to multiple individuals.

Can we make rules to attach to the leasing bylaws to strengthen the single family definition used
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LouH1 on 08/02/2020 7:01 AM
Can we make rules to attach to the leasing bylaws to strengthen the single family definition used
You would have to quote exactly what your Condo's Bylaws and Master Deed say on the subjects of rule-making. Also, knowing whether the Condo's Bylaws and Master Deed allow fines would be helpful.

Note for future reference: I see Michigan's condo association vocabulary does not appear to include the word "Declaration" but instead uses the words "Bylaws," "Master Deed," "covenants," and "rules." A copy of the Michigan Condo Act appears at http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-Act-59-of-1978.pdf
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/02/2020 6:34 AM
Cathy unfortunately tenants do NOT have to comply with the rules of the HOA UNLESS written in the lease agreement. The lease is signed between the member and the tenant, NOT the HOA. So the HOA has to enforce the rules violations of the tenant onto the Member. The member if did not put that clause in their lease, can NOT evict or punish their tenant. If they did put it in their lease as a condition, then they can follow the laws of eviction which can take a month to several months to evict.

Not correct.

From the Michigan Condominium Act:

"559.165 Compliance with master deed, bylaws, rules, and regulations.
Sec. 65. Each unit co-owner, tenant, or nonco-owner occupant shall comply with the master deed, bylaws, and rules and regulations of the condominium project and this act."

The Act has other restrictions on tenants, and allows the association to evict the tenant and pursue damages, among other remedies.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
From the Michigan Condominium Act: " ...the association of co-owners may amend the condominium documents as to the rental of condominium units or terms of occupancy. "

However, this type of amendment needs to be a general occupancy restriction that applies equally to owners and tenants. There is no need to make this solely for tenants, and doing so could be seen as arbitrary or discriminatory.

In order to survive a legal challenge, any amendment needs to be reasonable. Ask your lawyer whether only 2 unrelated people is reasonable given common living arrangements (in Michigan or the USA).

You may need to grandfather existing residents, and have the new amendment apply only to future situations.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LouH1 on 08/01/2020 8:25 PM
Can a private codo Association's bylaws regarding renting/leasing supercede city law. Can we have a rule that allows only 2 unrelated people instead of 4 in a single family residence?
I think the biggest problem with such a rule may be that it violates the federal Fair Housing law with regard to discriminating on the basis of "familial status."

I believe the courts have said, in so many words, that HOA/condo covenants prohibiting homes/condo units from being occupied by unmarried or unrelated people are unlawful. I think putting a limit on the number of "unrelated" people occupying a "single family" residence would likewise be unlawful. What is a "family"? I think the courts have said this is open to interpretation.
LouH1 (Michigan)
Posts: 214
Posted:
So Augustin D. what can we do? We do not want this community to turn into a University rental community. Suggestions?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LouH1 on 08/02/2020 12:00 PM
So Augustin D. what can we do? We do not want this community to turn into a University rental community. Suggestions?


Quote:
Posted By LouH1 on 08/02/2020 11:57 AM
Again, a board director rents....
... and to six university students. Got it. I'd be unhappy as well.

Your covenants and the Condo Act allow your condo to put restrictions on the lease and occupancy. The courts expect these to be fair and reasonable, and certainly not in violation of any federal or state fair housing law. I will have to ponder whether there is anything you all can do as far as creating a fair and reasonable restriction is concerned. There are some excellent brains here at hoatalk. Let's see what others day.

For now and from where I am sitting, one approach is to enforce rules on noise and nuisances. Call the police every time there is a racket coming from the house (and I do expect this to be often, even with the Coronavirus pandemic). Make sure all neighbors know they can report noise and nuisances that violate the covenants (Master Deed; Bylaws). This was highly effective for me in a single family HOA when years ago some essentially frat boys next door (one a nephew of the stupid owner) were throwing loud parties, leaving their dog in the heat with no shade nor water and all tied up, more. I reported them every chance I got to the HOA, city animal control, the police et cetera. They were gone in a year.

Are the University of Michigan and Michigan State University opening to students in the Fall? Not that you live near either. More that this would go into how to solve the problem of these kiddos possibly being nuisances in violation of the covenants.
LouH1 (Michigan)
Posts: 214
Posted:
You are wonderful! Yes, we are close, nearly on the campus of a University. What great ideas you have, I appreciate so much. I hope your group of "brains" there has more ideas as I am at wits end. But my strong maternal genetic background of "doing what I think is right for me and others....." ( and a Dad who respected women)takes precedent over my emotions and hurt feelings. So please, please keep the helpful suggestions and ideas coming. I am so grateful to you all.
LouH1 (Michigan)
Posts: 214
Posted:
Oh! forgot to say..It is still up in the air about Universities opening.....
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Consider the possibilities of underage drinking and serving liquor to underage students. Every time there is a loud party, and it looks to you and your neighbors that there are babies (under the age of 21) attending: Dress like a 19-year-old; crash the party; grab a drink; and take out your cell phone camera. Filming a college party would be highly unusual, wouldn't it? When a U. of Michigan law student objects that he did not consent to the recording, tell him, "Uh huh, sonny. Good luck convincing the judge that this was a 'private place' pursuant to Mich. Comp. Laws ยง 750.539a. [whip off wig and costume] I am thirty-blah blah blah plus years old. I do not know the owners from Adam. I have been welcomed here, including being served a screwdriver or whatever pathetic mix of cheap vodka and orange Kool-Aid this is. Sonny boy, this is no private party. I can record whatever I want, and with sound."

Or just call the police and report what age you think the attendees are.
LouH1 (Michigan)
Posts: 214
Posted:
OMG, I am rolling on the floor laughing!! You are a stitch! I can just envision myself doing such a thing....(unfortunately, it is true...I can!) But I am much older that 35 and think calling police would be the wiser, but then again,....maybe not! Ha Ha. Thanks again. You and your fellow HOAtalk pals are unbelievable!

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
:-) You are welcome.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
City code will define what occupancy is for a home. I believe it goes by the number of bedrooms.

Group homes have to abide by these laws. So do rentals. Check with city regulations.

Your bylaws would have to declare whether or not rentals are allowed in your HOA.

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