💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

DanaA (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
New to BOD, and I am dealing with a two term President who has been allowed to make decisions on behalf of our BOD due to prior BOD apathy perhaps. We have a FL 720 Association, 55+, and we have a committee for the purpose of rewriting our CCRs Bylaws and Rules and Regs because they are out of date (says Pres, though CCRs were revitalized in 2006). This committee is chaired by our BOD Pres with two of his like-minded residents only also on committee. I just volunteered to join committee, and it is now clear that the agenda of this committee is to "change" CCRs, not "update" them. Substantial changes such as not allowing annual rentals, restricting guest visits from the current 60 days to 15...President/chairman of committee says the process is this:
1) Committee meets several times to discuss & propose changes
2) Next, the President will send committee's recommendations (even if not unanimous)directly to association lawyer to determine if proposed changes are legal. ($$$ spent), then tell BOD the proposed changes.
3)President will hold Town Hall meetings to present, and let members and weigh in.
4)Vote by membership to approve.
Where is the BOD in the overseeing of this process? Why would the full BOD not see these proposed ideas prior to spending association money on our lawyer reviewing them? Doesn't the BOD have to review/be informed of/or approve the committee's recommended proposed changes before proceeding at all? Thanks again, Dana
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Dana, having been involved in numerous amendments to the CC&Rs I believe your President is going about this process in an inefficient manner.
1) There should be people on the committee with various perspectives, not just like minded members.
2) The committee presents their finalized draft of proposed amendments to the Board for their approval; and modify the draft as desired by the Board.
3) Conduct a members meeting or "town hall type" meeting of interested members to get their suggested changes and to gauge their acceptance.
4) If there is sufficient support at the members meeting submit the committees final modified draft to an attorney. Do not waste money sending it to an attorney if it is not strongly supported by the members who attend the members meeting. It would be a waste of money because whatever is presented to the members would most likely not be approved.
5) Board reviews attorney's draft and accepts or modifies.
6) Proposed amendments are submitted to members for vote by a signed and dated ballot. It may take a major effort to get sufficient votes to approve any amendment due to apathy. Remember that every owner must be counted and if they do not vote it is equivalent to disapproving the amendment(s).
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

DanaA

Roger has outlined this particular process to the tee. Print it our and stck with it.
Your last sentence asks if the BOD has to review or be informed or approve the committee''s recommended proposals? ABSOLUTELY --YES!!
Committees have absolutely NO power in any association except to work at the Boards pleasure and discretion.They do not make any executive decisions for the association. That is why the Board is elected and are insured---to make the decisions.

One of my rentals is an exact duplicate of your situation. You need to get on the streets and recruit your members to join that committee. It sounds like there are 3 of the cronies and yourself on it. That is truely not enough members to take on such a formidable task. We had 9 members and because not all can make it each meeting, there at least are enough to get a variety of input.
We dealt with the rental issue 3 times and it never got passed as it was proposed. Believe it or not, they are trying to pass another version of "non-rentals" again this November. I guess that the owners are truely trying to give the BOD a message by not allowing this to happen.
DanaA (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Thanks, Donna, for your input. When you refer to your similar situation "and it was not passed", do you mean it did not get passed by the BOD to present the proposed changes to the membership?? Since I now understand that the BOD must approve any recommended proposed committee changes (right?), can the BOD hear the committee's recommendations and then vote the proposals down and totally stop the process of Town Hall meetings? Or do you mean that yours went the full process and the membership voted it down? I believe our Pres is trying to circumvent the BOD on the "process" because three of our BOD members of 9 (including myself) own rental units within this community, and Pres does not want BOD to shoot down this idea. I do set personal agendas aside when it comes to BOD matters because we represent the membership, but how do I gracefully tell our Pres that, due to the information I have received, the BOD must review committee's recommendations prior to going forward with attorney? Pres is all about his seniority and "knowing" all the answers, and Pres knows that he is dealing with a group of new BOD members. He has stated his process is correct...........
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Dana,
The rental amendement was the brainchild of an "anti" anything Board President. It never passed the amendment vote by the membership--3 times.

Yes, the Board must approve any proposed changes by any committee, member or Director before it gets put into the system, be it an amendment to the CC&Rs, ByLaws or rules and regs.

Yes, the BOD can vote down any proposals by members or committees BUT if a percentage of the membership petitions the Board to address any given subject, the Board is then required to take this issue up in a Board session, open to the membership. (Hopefully your Docs give a percentage for this action. Ours is 10% of the owners to petition)

What is a Town Hall meeting for your association? Just a venting forum?

Many associations have a know it all Board member and it sounds like you are no exception. There is strength in numbers. You need to get all of the Board together and tell them that there is a due process to follow and the "Senior Guy" is not following it. Stand up and give a presence of being a dominant member. I, being female have always been challenged by the senior member but if you go armed with correct information, they usually back down. Good Luck!

Also, do check your State statutes or laws governing these meetings if your Articles of Incorporation do not spell out the voting and election system for your association. The Attorney gets the proposed amendment change only after it is all approved by the Board otherwise, you are wasting valuable funds for legal paper time.

This anti rental thing just never goes away. In my 4 properties, 3 of the Boards have gotten on the anti rental bandwagon but so far, the general membership has limited the banning of it. But we did change 1 places CC&Rs to read that "A UNIT MAY BE RENTED OUT AFTER A 2 YEAR OWNERSHIP HAS BEEN ACCRUED" This was done to prevent realtors and speculators from buying them up to use as income properties , many who were absentee landlords.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
I find the description of the actions going on here, and I have no reason to doublt their validity, to sound like this president is acting this way because he has discovered a flaw in this whole operation. We do have people acting out of insecurity and some out of fear and some to boost their ego. Er. go. it is only a matter of time before some wilely individual will do what he wants because he knows the documents better than others. HOA's and Condo's have a lot of built in Paper Tigers.
We certainly see that in all states. The lack of strong legislative support is part of it. The confusion that exists between CC&R's is another. The poorly written documents all HOA's start with that were written to protect the developer, the habit of lawyers doing what they are told to do and and not necessarily have the concern of the Homeowners in mind. Maybe this guy things he has figured out that a lot of our documents leave large voids that allow an individual so minded to construct an empire. I agree, this kind of thing has been going on for a long time, I'm just wondering if the motivation might be shifted.
DanaA (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
The definition of a "Town Hall" meeting, according to our Pres, is an informal get together of the membership at various times and dates, where this committee explains the CCR and Bylaw changes being proposed, and explains why these changes are necessary to be voted on and approved at the annual meeting. Correct procedure?!
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Dana,
Correct procedure. The most important thing that any Board must do is to follow the documents and be open and honest with it's membership. It won't always be smooth but that way, nothing can come back and bite you in the B--- (rear)
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
DanaA,
I, for one would like to know how "you" are going to address all these issues.
Only you will be on the battle field and only you can adjust your strategy to met changing events. This all is probably too much on one plate so maybe it would be wise to isolate this Presiddent Problem, resolve that, by the many suggestions given and then take the next step, If you can't resolve your issues with him you will fail. At this point I believe you should pressure the Board to vote away his presidents seat. Then who knows what happens but if you can get Board support to take action, you are out in the open. I suspect you may not get the Board support you seek and if you don't, you have to turn to a "recall", and you will need support for that. It is not going to happen overnite, and it won't happen at all if you don't have strong support, it may take a year or more. From what I have read, you seem to be alone in you concerns. It takes more than someone to say they agree with you, it takes committment. I am positive the people responding here have been through this kind of a battle a time or two, I bet all would agree, that for concern towards the community at large, they have found you are not going to win on all issues.
NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447
Posted:
A "Town Hall" meeting is an informal meeting of community members and the BOD to discuss or voice their opinions on a variety of topics. Although it may be, it is not only for one subject.

Your HOA should follow the great format that Roger laid out.
DanaA (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Thanks Robert. I do have some support. The BOD Secretary and two other BODs are on board to a degree- they want the President out, but do not want to rock boat or upset Pres since his term is up in February. He will more than likely not be reelected Pres, though I still see membership reelecting him to the BOD because they are unaware of the behind the scene stuff. Until I saw the BOD side, I had no idea what was happening. These BOD members have recommended that we "address" the issues to Pres at the next BOD meeting, (how?)and see what happens. We are a community just under 200 homes, and they don't want a divided community with a "recall"....
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Dana,
I know you all are trying to correct your problem without a fight, but strongly disagree that calling for a recall is cause for a division of the community. The President is guilty of this, not the Board members by taking action. I assume you mean the Board members that support your view have decided to approach the problem at a Board Meeting. As a Board member you have an absolute right to address any subject you desire. You can do that a couple of ways. You can question the president about his actions and demand he explain. You can ask for a show of hands to bring the subject to the table and if you have a majority, your power is practically unlimited. If you don't have a majority, that is not a reason to keep in from coming before the Board. The Board elected the President, any Board member can question the actions of the president, that does not create a division. The Board not only has the authority, it has the obligation to serve the members in a responsible manner. You have rules and regulation the Board is charged with enforcing, the operation of the board is one of the Boards charges. I'll leave it at that.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here