Clutter/trash

Our HOA is adding to the nuisance section the topic "clutter". We are unsure how to define clutter so it fits those who have trash and clutter in piles on their property. the saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure" plagues us so we want to be as specific as possible. Any suggestions? Thanks.

You want to add something and no one checked the dictionary?

Or have a look at your city/county code concerning trash - I'm sure there's something that addresses piles of junk that can result in vermin/insect infestation, or otherwise threaten health and safety. You could even adopt the city or county code as your community rules - that may be faster than trying to define it yourself because, as you said, one person's treasure is another person's crap.

By the way, where is this going - in your CCRs (amendments have to be approved by the homeowners, which can be a long and convoluted process) or adopted as a community rule (many documents give the Board the authority to adopt additional rules and policies to flesh out the CCRs, but can't override them). That distinction can be important if someone raises a major stink over it. By adopting a rule and telling everything it'll be effective X date, changing a rule may be faster once you see the intended and unintended consequences. I suggest 30 days notice to give people time to clean up their act.

One of the biggest mistakes association's make when it comes to rule enforcement is not getting buy-in from the homeowners, or at least a majority of them. Has anyone conducted a survey to see what homeowners consider clutter and what the biggest concerns are?

From reviewing the responses, you may notice patterns that can help in drafting rules. For example someone may like up stuff one day because he's carpets being laid and it goes back in the house that night. Others may leave it outside for weeks on end - what bugs people the most about that? Is it the length of time, loose stuff being blown around the neighbor into other yards, etc? Perhaps you should consider when stuff sitting outside turn into a safety and health hazard and ready from there.

You'll also have to think of enforcement. You're correct The politicians don't want to deal with for The same reason you're concerned about pushback. Just how will YOU enforce this rule and what if someone says F##k you, this is mah house and I'll put whatever I want on my porch, driveway or where ever The bloody help I want because this is 'Murica! How far will you take it?

If you haven't already done so, do a poll of perhaps invite homeowners to a special meeting to see what they'd like to see. There will always be people who will resist common sense, but if the majority know they had a hand in establishing the rule, they'll be more supportive.

We did do a survey. 66% want us to do something about "unsightly or cluttered properties". 32% said no and 2% didn't answer. There is a faction of "my house, I'll do what I want" but I'm not so concerned about that at this point. I think we will get the votes, but getting the verbiage right is critical. We have a nearby neighborhood that includes "at the Board's judgement" and I like that because in reality that's what it comes down to. But this is a two way street - we can have homeowners that are heavy handed and we could have board members that are heavy handed too. We don't now, but could in the future.

Cathy and I have been thinking about this too much and were just looking for some outside perspective.

You will get some good replies, I think. I'm not much help cuz we're in a high rise condo building where folks only have balconies. So our rules list what IS permitted vs. what isn't. Makes it easy. I don't seem to have any ideas for you.

It does sound like your neighbors do want a nicer- appearing community.

You Know? Once you do have rules, IF your HOA can afford it, maybe rent a big dumpster for a day or weekend for everyone to throw their trash into?

Wow. Classist much.