IDR in California

NpB
Posts: 604

Posted:

My friend received a letter from a concerned owner complaining that a Board member and owner have violated the Architectural Guidelines and they aren't being fined for their non-permitted installation. The concerned owner has started the Informal Dispute Resolution process and is encouraging everyone that received the letter to write an Informal Dispute Resolution and send a certified copy to the Board. Why do several owners need to basically copy/paste what the concerned owner wrote and start an IDR? Why can't the concerned owner do this himself?

MarkW18
Posts: 1,257

Posted:

It would be more appropriate to have your friend ask the question here, not you. It would be better not to have to get information third hand.

SheliaH
Posts: 6,967

Posted:

I have to agree with Mark - this sounds like a SWIM (someone who isn't me {although everyone knows it IS you}) question. If you aren't the friend, did he or she go to this concerned owner with this question?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

ND
Posts: 792

Posted:

In the scenario stated, I'm not sure if I can follow who is who . . . there's you, your friend, a concerned owner, a Board member who violated Arch guidelines, another owner who violated Arch guidelines (or were you indicating the Board Member is also an owner?), and then everyone that received 'the letter'.

Regardless, I think the crux of the issue is that a Board Member is in violation of the docs and the Board is aware and supposedly doing nothing about it.

While a single "concerned owner" owner could call out the Board on this activity via IDR, the Board could easily brush this one owner aside and ignore him. Perhaps that's already been done. However, if multiple "concerned owners" simultaneously confront the Board on inappropriate behavior, then there is power in numbers, and that's a little harder for the Board to ignore and refute. Perhaps that is this "concerned owner's" strategy.

NpB
Posts: 604

Posted:

I did not know it was prohibited to ask a question for a friend who does not have internet. My friend receiving a letter should have been a clue as to the demographic of where he live.

NpB
Posts: 604

Posted:

Also, no need to make this personal if one disagrees with my past posts.

NpB
Posts: 604

Posted:

ND. If my friend writes a handwritten letter to the Board copying what the complaining owner wrote, would be then have to them physically attend a hearing with them, even though he does not have first hand knowledge of what occurred, but in principle does not support selective enforcement?

ND
Posts: 792

Posted:

I don't understand exactly what you're asking. And I should also admit that I'm not familiar with the IDR process . . . not something required in my state, so haven't had a need to fully understand.

JohnT38
Posts: 1,620

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ND on 07/23/2020 8:03 AM
I don't understand exactly what you're asking. And I should also admit that I'm not familiar with the IDR process . . . not something required in my state, so haven't had a need to fully understand.

I'm with you. I can't make heads or tales out of what he's written. It sounds like someone has opened an IDR. Why does anyone else need to get involved at this point? Let the process happen and see what the results are before taking any additional action.

NpB
Posts: 604

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 07/23/2020 8:16 AM

Posted By ND on 07/23/2020 8:03 AM
I don't understand exactly what you're asking. And I should also admit that I'm not familiar with the IDR process . . . not something required in my state, so haven't had a need to fully understand.

I'm with you. I can't make heads or tales out of what he's written. It sounds like someone has opened an IDR. Why does anyone else need to get involved at this point? Let the process happen and see what the results are before taking any additional action.

My friend with no internet received a letter from an owner who filed an IDR with their homeowners association. Owner wants others to copy/paste letter and start internal dispute resolution on same issue.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,257

Posted:

Sorry, in this instance IDR is not the right venue for this matter.

BenA2
Posts: 1,272

Posted:

It sounds pretty clear to me. One owner got a violation letter and disputed it. He is encouraging other owners who got the same violation letter to also dispute it. What his reason is, we can only guess. It may be that he just wants them to stand up for their rights or maybe he feels the more people who dispute the violation, the better case they have.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,257

Posted:

In reading the posts, I see it stated nowhere that anyone got a letter or was fined. The issue is one person believe a board member should be fined for "violating" the ARC guideline and installing something that wasn't permitted.

I am not sure what cause of action you have. On the other hand, say the issue is a non-permitted shed. Have the person file an application to install the very same shed and let it get denied. NOW, you have a cause of action. Otherwise, you just have an over abundance of air to fill balloons for the festival in Temecula.

NpB
Posts: 604

Posted:

So bottom line, if my friend didn't notice a Board member's violation, but is only being made aware of it by another owner who has a gripe about it, he shouldn't get involved.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,132

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 07/22/2020 8:55 PM
My friend [B] received a letter from a concerned owner [A] complaining that a Board member [X] and owner [Y] have violated the Architectural Guidelines and they aren't being fined for their non-permitted installation.

I would like to get some clarity here. Is owner [A] asking that the HOA issue violations to, and possibly fine, [X] and [Y]?

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 07/22/2020 8:55 PM
The concerned owner [A] has started the Informal Dispute Resolution process and is encouraging everyone that received the letter to write an Informal Dispute Resolution and send a certified copy to the Board. Why do several owners need to basically copy/paste what the concerned owner wrote and start an IDR?

Strength in numbers. If I am understanding the situation correctly, I suggest that owner [A] simply get others to sign on as a co-party with him/her in the IDR.

NpB
Posts: 604

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 07/23/2020 11:20 AM

Posted By NpB on 07/22/2020 8:55 PM
My friend [B] received a letter from a concerned owner [A] complaining that a Board member [X] and owner [Y] have violated the Architectural Guidelines and they aren't being fined for their non-permitted installation.

I would like to get some clarity here. Is owner [A] asking that the HOA issue violations to, and possibly fine, [X] and [Y]?

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 07/22/2020 8:55 PM
The concerned owner [A] has started the Informal Dispute Resolution process and is encouraging everyone that received the letter to write an Informal Dispute Resolution and send a certified copy to the Board. Why do several owners need to basically copy/paste what the concerned owner wrote and start an IDR?

Strength in numbers. If I am understanding the situation correctly, I suggest that owner [A] simply get others to sign on as a co-party with him/her in the IDR.

Concerned owner A is asking that the HOA issue violations to and possibly fine X and Y. Concerned owner has filed for an IDR. Concerned owner is on Architectural Committee and unapproved item was installed without their approval.

Concerned owner A also writes in letter "The next actions required of each of us is to write an Informal Dispute Resolution" and mail it via certified mail to the HOA Board. That's where my friend called me for assistance. He's puzzled why he needs to join or start and IDR. I told him that writing a handwritten letter to the Board indicating that all members should be treated equally and there should be no selective enforcement would be a good idea.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,132

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 07/23/2020 11:31 AM
< He's puzzled why he needs to join or start an IDR.

He does not need to. Depending on the situation though, if I were in his shoes, I might ask to join the IDR, as a co-party with [A].

NpB
Posts: 604

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 07/23/2020 11:36 AM

Posted By NpB on 07/23/2020 11:31 AM
< He's puzzled why he needs to join or start an IDR.

He does not need to. Depending on the situation though, if I were in his shoes, I might ask to join the IDR, as a co-party with [A].

Are there any financial or legal downsides to joining an IDR?

MarkW18
Posts: 1,257

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 07/23/2020 11:31 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 07/23/2020 11:20 AM

Posted By NpB on 07/22/2020 8:55 PM
My friend [B] received a letter from a concerned owner [A] complaining that a Board member [X] and owner [Y] have violated the Architectural Guidelines and they aren't being fined for their non-permitted installation.

I would like to get some clarity here. Is owner [A] asking that the HOA issue violations to, and possibly fine, [X] and [Y]?

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 07/22/2020 8:55 PM
The concerned owner [A] has started the Informal Dispute Resolution process and is encouraging everyone that received the letter to write an Informal Dispute Resolution and send a certified copy to the Board. Why do several owners need to basically copy/paste what the concerned owner wrote and start an IDR?

Strength in numbers. If I am understanding the situation correctly, I suggest that owner [A] simply get others to sign on as a co-party with him/her in the IDR.

Concerned owner A is asking that the HOA issue violations to and possibly fine X and Y. Concerned owner has filed for an IDR. Concerned owner is on Architectural Committee and unapproved item was installed without their approval.

Concerned owner A also writes in letter "The next actions required of each of us is to write an Informal Dispute Resolution" and mail it via certified mail to the HOA Board. That's where my friend called me for assistance. He's puzzled why he needs to join or start and IDR. I told him that writing a handwritten letter to the Board indicating that all members should be treated equally and there should be no selective enforcement would be a good idea.

BTW, it's not Information Dispute Resolution, it's Internal Dispute Resolution.

KerryL1
Posts: 14,519

Posted:

As an inexpensive & simple first step, owners who are troubled by this could all go to an open Board meeting and bring up the topic at open forum by stating the violators' names and the type of ARC violation that these directors are alleged to be guilty of.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,132

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 07/23/2020 11:40 AM
Are there any financial or legal downsides to joining an IDR?

From the Davis-Stirling site, I see none.

The whole point of IDR is to minimize the dispute costing either side money and involving attorneys excessively.

I am not sure one can "join" another in IDR, but right now, I do not see why this would not be possible.

I like KerryL1's suggestion too.

JohnC46
Posts: 14,230

Posted:

NpB's friend just want to bombard the BOD with paperwork. I believe he thinKs they will then withdraw the complaint.

Kerry offered the best course or action.

JohnC46
Posts: 14,230

Posted:

IDR info:

https://findhoalaw.com/internal-dispute-resolution-idr/

NpB
Posts: 604

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/23/2020 12:46 PM
As an inexpensive & simple first step, owners who are troubled by this could all go to an open Board meeting and bring up the topic at open forum by stating the violators' names and the type of ARC violation that these directors are alleged to be guilty of.

How is presenting a complaint better or worse than the strategy of an owner requesting that other owners start an IDR over the same issue?

KerryL1
Posts: 14,519

Posted:

Presenting a complaint in writing and verbally at the (required) CA open board meetings is much simpler nd much easier with IDR.It also would be obsessed by other owners in attendance.