Swift enforcement of pool rules (and fines)? PART 2

Yes. The response you had from the police is usual. The line from the police is typically, 'The police do not involve themselves in HOA disputes. The HOA has to go to civil court to get legal action.'

Security guards and security camera. Though I believe nationwide, a security guard is not allowed to put her or his hands on a person. All the guard can do is write up the incident as an eyewitness account. Which counts for a lot.

Don't you now have a fining policy for these violations of your rules? Calls to hearing and then fines?

Same thing with smoking anything. Call to hearing and fines?

Well, yes, but all of those take time. How do you kick people out immediately for continuously violating a bunch of rules all day? At what point can the police legally do something? Sounds like the answer is "never"...

@MarkW18

So you're saying we are unable to kick anyone out ourselves and the police won't do anything either?

As an example, our pool closes at 11pm. Our community security goes in around 11pm and tells everyone to leave. What happens if they don't leave? How does security make them leave? They're trespassing at that point; they're not allowed to be there, yet the police wouldn't do anything about it?

IF they won't leave when they're supposed to, call them to a hearing & fine them. Fines work even if you don't get the immediate results you want. Our schedule of fines permits doubling them after each violation.

I also agree with MarkW--your board should met with the security company's contract person and discuss these topics.

But n the long run, your Board must take action as swiftly as possible. It's part of the job!

Would you please look up the definition of criminal trespass in Arizona, and then use it to explain why you think what is happening is trespassing? Because I am not seeing a violation of Arizona criminal trespassing statutes. For example: Suppose the HOA instructs HOA member John Doe that he may not use the pool until ____ happens. The problem is that John Doe is a co-owner of the common property, including the pool area. This is a legal fact. For the HOA to claim, as co-owner of the property, that John Doe is criminally trespassing on property he co-owns will not fly in criminal court. Instead what the HOA has is grounds for a civil suit to enforce the covenants.

As a board member, one has to start trying to grasp what the typical attorney spends several years learning (through law school, passing the bar, and practicing law).

Reason 55,666 why I'm SO GLAD we finally got rid of our pool!

We didn't have a fining system, but hired off duty cops to serve as our pool monitor. This happened after several ineffective pool monitors - some were irresponsible and didn't show up half the time, and others were easily intimidated (we did have some scary residents with scarier guests at the time). Those pool monitors were given a list to check off people with passes (see next paragraph). Everyone had to have a pass, and the homeowner had to be there with his/her guests (we didn't allow Grandpa to hand off the passes and let the kids run over while he sat in the house doing whatever). If you were a delinquent homeowner, you didn't get a pass and you couldn't use a neighbor's pass to get in. Your tenants couldn't use a pass either.

We were sending out pool passes automatically but then began requiring people to submit written requests to save money on printing and postage. If you were an owner/landlord (we have lots of those around here), you had to submit the request, not your tenants. Before you got the passes (4 per household), the owner (including the landlords) had to sign an agreement stating you, your household and your guests would comply by the rules - failure or refusal could lead to you getting kicked out for the day and repeat offenses would get you banned for the rest of the season.

In one case, we issued a complete ban against one homeowner because everyone on her passes always caused some sort of mayhem. She protested but backed down when we replayed some of her family's greatest misses and warned her all of it would be presented in court if she wanted to go there. It didn't help that the police were well acquainted with her for this and other issues - eventually, she moved out.

You don't say if your community security are folks from the neighborhood or professionals - if you're paying them, it appears their warnings aren't working. For something like glass, the rule should be clear - no glass in or around the pool(see what I did there?) First you get a warning, then it gets confiscated and you get kicked out. If you don't leave on your own, you'll be escorted out.

If you have repeat offenders, it's time to either limit their use of the pool altogether or ban them for the rest of the season. You should be documenting all the bad behavior (photos and witness statements) so you can send a notice to the homeowner telling them what's what. If you can revoke access on the spot, do it. Of course people will yell and threaten lawsuit - tell them to bring it. If you've documented and issued the proper warnings, you should countersue THEM to reimburse the Association for its legal costs incurred in enforcing its rules.

Send everyone a strongly worded letter telling them the new policies effective immediately. I'd also state that if homeowners and their guests DON'T follow the rules, the board will consider shutting down the pool for the ENTIRE SUMMER. Encourage everyone to speak up if they see a neighbor acting up - sometimes self regulations work better than any fine because kids and teens HATE being deprived of something because Bobby's crazy ass cousin didn't know how to act.

Meet with your local police department to find out why responding officers are not issuing trespass citations. Find out from your local police if a certified security officer can issue trespass citations. If all else fails get your corporate council to draft cease and desist orders to offenders.Make the cost part of your fining structure.