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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Would like to hear ways of thinking about this.

Our twin high rises are in an urban area a few blocks from the very center of downtown with its courthouses, county & city buildings and nearby financial district. Were also 3 blacks from a street of mostly restaurants and small shops, most of which are still closed due to the Virus. A supermarket is a block a way and had it's windows boarded up Friday evening.

We take up a city block. We have a sidewalk double heavy -glass door entrance to each tower's lobby--both on fairly busy streets. The vehicle entrance (& exit) is gated and staffed 24/7 with an officer in a kiosk at the sidewalk of one busy street. The officer's kiosk door opens into the interior of the gated area.

About 40 protesters walked by Saturday night at about 10pm without signs and few chants. My spouse & I had a perfect view of them from our 17th floor condo. Two on bicycles stopped a few feet from the kiosk. The officer must have been nervous as his kiosk, perhaps 6 X 10", is surrounded by windows though they're extra strength glass. He held his post. There were two on duty and I'm not sure if the 22nd one was in the kiosk or at a lobby's reception desk where they also are stationed.

Our officers wear business suits and aren't licensed to carry weapons. Our mgmt. co. CEO has long insisted we not call them "security" as it sends the false message that they can somehow protect us. She prefers "Access Control Officers." But despite this, the common term for them is security or sometimes "guards."

Two small window panes on a sidewalk-level condo were broken. And some graffiti was sprayed.

Some residents believe we should hire more for next weekend though the protests have diminished somewhat here. Some think we should hire off duty cops. Some think we should insist the current officers wear uniforms instead of suits. I do have an opinion about this, but it's not firm.

We're holding an open Zoom board meeting Friday on this topic.

Any thoughts?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
My bet is there are no "Off-duty" cops available at this time. Plus your maybe putting a police officer's life in danger as some may be putting their anger towards the police right now.

Your main concern should be property protection. I'd suggest boarding up windows and other measure. Like removing any loose items like rocks or decorative items. Anything that can be picked up and thrown. Especially near that kiosk area. The security person may also have some ideas to consider.

Our city just had some protestors and are now removing rocks/bricks/trash cans from the downtown area. A few stores have boarded up windows. The good news is our courthouse is an eyesore that pretty much people ignore. Not a lot of attraction to want to damage anything. They did put out tear gas to run off most that did not leave at allotted time.

What was scary is they are going to malls and shopping areas. Found out 2 miles from my house protestors rioted at the local outside mall area. Throwing trash cans at police officers. Nearly half the town's police were there running them off. They have local security officers there that are now on high alert. Many of them are unarmed and just people willing to do the job. All they are trained to do is to call the police.

So consider the mobs behavior. It's more like causing chaos and property damage. Address issues that would help prevent those things. Buy some extra fire extinguishers. 1st aid kits are good. Buy duct tape and other items that if things get damaged can quickly protect. Get some graphiti remover ASAP or paint. Graphiti can attract more. So best to get rid of it fast. Maybe spay it with some furniture wax or something make it less likely to take on paint.

Protect the property and make sure to set up maybe a way to text everyone. Let them know NOT to leave the building. Organize a group whom is willing to go out and fix any damages. Don't confront these people. They are dangerous. Best to let them do what they going to do and limit damage after.

Former HOA President
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
May I also suggest an idea. Why not put some tarps up and let those be what people can paint on. Like put out peace messages on it or something that says "Hey don't paint the building but paint this area. We support you". It may distract the protestors who are tagging areas. This is a distraction game at this point. Don't engage or enrage.

Give them something to focus their energy away or in such a way that won't do harm. Most people that are protesting are doing so in peace. I will give some credit to that. Our town put out chalk to color the sidewalk with messages. It washes off and let's people express themselves.

Be safe. It's really scary. My prediction most of these people will be in quarantine in a week...

Former HOA President
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
Hi,

I don't think it's necessary to hire more security at this time. But if this would make the community feel safer, do you have the budget for it? If so, make sure the additional help is there to protect the property and offer support to staff, not create more conflict.

As a few people have noted, most protesters are peaceful. You could look at ways to keep the property protected, like making sure the area is free of rocks, sticks, etc. Good lighting may also discourage protesters from vandalizing the building.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
People who protest and people who riot and loot are two different individuals.

Let police do their jobs. Security are not trained no are they paid to confront this type of activity.

I don't think this is going away anytime soon. The clown in the White House is just itching to start a larger fight knowing he has a bunker to hide in.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Great start with ideas. Thank you! Keep 'em coming.

Our buildings go to the sidewalks. There are no rocks or anything that can be thrown. Well-lit. We have plenty of fire exingusishers & first aid kits, including eye wash. We have plywood in case we want to board up the windows of the commercial property that takes up the ground floor of about 1-12 blocks. Just trying to give more details.

Our GM met with the officers Monday to also get their ideas and for the very reason Melissa stated, the graffiti was removed Monday. We're very experienced with it as it happens probably couple of times a year in "normal" times.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
There are reports that some of the people who've done the vandalism are taking advantage of the legitimate and peaceful protests to commit mayhem and then watch the world burn. Unfortunately, you will always have people who do this - it's not strictly a right or left wing thing.

Since the protests do appear to be calming down (it would go a lot faster if the remaining officers in the George Floyd murder were arrested RIGHT NOW), I would hire a few extra security offers for now and see what happens. You said one group of 40 passed by on Saturday, which was 4 days ago, as I write this, so you may have seen the worst it it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
You may or may not have full video capability, in either case buy a few larger than necessary fake camera boxes and signage ... make it very visible.

Some sign says things like: Vandalism will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Kerry, as a security guard myself I have worked in High, mid and low rise communities. I it is armed guards that you want, Melissa hit the nail on the head, hire off duty cops. Since none are available, you and the board can explore the option of going in-house and apply for security licensing. Being armed, your insurance may increase. That would be my best suggestion is to go in-house instead of contracting security services out. Talk to a few cops and ask if any officers in the academy work part time as guards. Here in Nevada some desired positions are POST certified. That means they've been through an academy type training. most POST certified are military experiences and pre or current academy cadets.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I tend to think uniformed armed cops with weapons would, as Melissa suggests, “set off” certain protesters and we sure wouldn’t hire, even if available, more than two. And that wouldn’t be enough if needed. Yeah, it seems they’d attract vs. deter trouble.

We could put an extra officer of our vendor on duty. They do have “floaters” available. I think it WOULD help residents feel more comfortable even if in reality one extra guy in a suit can’t do much. Maybe Saturday, when rumor has it, there’ll be a large demonstration all day.

We’ve learned through various reports that the bad actors show up after dark, so maybe a 8p-3a shift addition. While officers typically tour the exterior of the buildings on the sidewalks, they know to call the police if there are any incidents in public. Our urban setting means we’re not naive about trespassers and aggressive persons. But usually one at a time!

Yes, we know, as Marshall, MarkW & Sheila note that there’s big difference between the bad guys and the huge number of peaceful demonstrators. Off topic, but I agree with Sheila that once the three accessories to George Floyd’s murder are charged with a crime, it might help. Might have happened today.

We have numerous cameras around the perimeter of our premises. We have no signs that they’re there. I’ve read many times to not use fake cameras as it gives residents a false sense of security. I dunno, am thinking signage might invite the cameras to be destroyed? Demonstrators are wearing face coverings and even with our good lighting, it’s dark at night. I don’t think the bad ones are deterred by cameras.

One of our directors was a cop, then detective then head of the police at LAX—till he was shot in the head and became a stock broker. True story. His background has been and will be helpful at Friday's meeting.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Tonight we had yet what has been expected another protest that ended with the police running off trouble making protestors. Smoke bombs were deployed and a few rubber bullets were rumored shot. Mind you rumor had it that new Terrorist group/gang were going to be part of the crowd tonight. Our NACAAP group whom had the protest are really respectable group and level-headed. They were part of encouraging people to go home. Our police even allowed the protestors to stay over 2 hours after the event officially ended.

No I did not go. The local station interrupted my watching tv show. So got to see it all live. It was surreal because I was just there last weekend with my dogs eating lunch. Know the area very well.

What I noticed is the police shot off smoke bombs. When the smoke bombs went off they first shot off as "fireworks". Made some sparks and then smoke. I bring this up as you may want to buy some fireworks like smoke bombs. Something pretty harmless. Wouldn't get something like explosive/gun noises. People may just see the smoke and want to walk around.

The goal is to keep people from the property. Let the police do their job. Keep out of their way. However, making them think the police are nearby by putting up a "smoke" screen may work too.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Interesting thought, Melissa. I wonder if it's legal for ordinary folks to have smoke bombs? And if they can be used in public?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/03/2020 6:04 PM
We have numerous cameras around the perimeter of our premises. We have no signs that they’re there. I’ve read many times to not use fake cameras as it gives residents a false sense of security. I dunno, am thinking signage might invite the cameras to be destroyed? Demonstrators are wearing face coverings and even with our good lighting, it’s dark at night. I don’t think the bad ones are deterred by cameras.

"5G Security Cameras In Operation. Please Step Closer."
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
“Danger, Proximity Detector, Nuclear Claymore?”
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I hope KerryL1 will update us on what happened at her Zoom board meeting. I also want to apologize if my attempt to inject a little levity into the thread was inappropriate. I know the situation isn't funny to those in the middle of it.
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
My HOA is in an urban area (with damage nearby) and it has (1) locked the building when curfew starts and (2) hired more staff.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our open Zoom meeting was this afternoon. We directors discussed this quite a bit and ranged from hiring a new full-time officer for a month to paying an existing officer OT to work a 8p - 4a shift for Saturday night when, indeed, there'll be a major demonstration in the afternoon here. The route hasn't been announced yet, but it probably won't come down any of our 4 streets. The last 3 nights have been peaceful in our large city.

I did motion for one person late shift to back up our lone officer and perhaps offer a little reassurance to residents, on duty (from 11-7a, ) Sat/Sun. but the motion failed 3-2. (We have 2 officers on duty from 7a-11p).

Btw, the double doors to each lobby always are locked. The 8 foot drive-thru gates aways are too.

At the Open Forum that followed, several owners contributed (28 attended), but none seemed unhappy with our decision. A man who lives on a street level Town Home told us how afraid he & a neighbor in another ground level Town Home were when the loud crowd went past and his neighbor had 2 window panes smashed. Two others sympathized with them.

Two male directors said they would go stand with the lone officer if trouble approaches. Our former cop director stated that it's better to keep a low profile. Additional males' presence could rile up bad actors. I agreed with him.

I'll keep you posted.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Several thousand marchers convened about 6 blocks from us and marched all afternoon and & evening. All was peaceful with respect shown from the demonstators and from law enforcement.

Unlike last Sunday night here & elsewhere, there were no splinter groups or provocateurs with ill intent so far as I know.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
That is good news. Hoping the good outweighs the bad. I went to the mall they attacked by me this weekend. Had some windows boarded up still. It's pretty quiet. I am avoiding downtown area for awhile because of the pop-up protests that seem to just come up.

Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Good to hear, Kerry.

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