Mobile Home definition

Started by AndiS1 • 35 replies • 1308 views

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AndiS1 (California)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Is a recreational van considered a mobile home? My CCR states that a "mobile home" is not allowed, but does not specifically define the term.
Every definition in search results indicates some type prefabricated structure that is transported to a site like a mobile home park, so it seems it does not cover a recreational van.
Thanks in advance

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Per:

this mobile home forum

Since RVs and mobile homes used to be the same thing prior to the 1950’s, it is a little grey. Generally, we’re going to call an RV anything that can be pulled by a regular car or pick-up truck, (a travel trailer or 5th wheel) or that can move under its own power (a motor home). If it has to be pulled by an actual truck (which is what costs the $3,000 or so in the move) then it’s a mobile home.

this moving site

So what does this mean today? It means that if the structure is built after 1976 and meets all federal rules for quality, durability, safety, and affordability, it is technically called a “manufactured home.” If it was built before 1976, it is technically called a “mobile home.”

RVs (short for recreational vehicles) are automotive vehicles that have a home attached to them. According to the DMV, there are multiple classes of RVs.

In my opinion, your vehicle (without seeing it) would be considered an RV.
However, as the above citations point out, it's a grey area as the terms (RV/Mobile Home) are often interchanged.

What is the language in your CCRs that is causing the issue?

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

There are different definitions but if it is not in your CC&Rs or state law I think a court would use the legal definition established by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). HOAs fall under HUD's regulations so it makes sense their definition would prevail.

"A manufactured home (formerly known as a mobile home) is built to the Manufactured Home Construction and Safety Standards (HUD Code) and displays a red certification label on the exterior of each transportable section. Manufactured homes are built in the controlled environment of a manufacturing plant and are transported in one or more sections on a permanent chassis."

Using that definition, an RV is not a mobile home.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Andi,

Since I don’t know what a recreational van is, could you help me?

If this is anything that looks of feels like an RV, then the point of the mention in you docs MAY be to limit these being parked in your community.

Personal opinion - they are an eyesore in most communities.

AndiS1 (California)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Tim, here is the language from CCR, “No mobile home, trailer of any kind, permanent tent, or similar structure, and no truck camper or boat, shall be kept, placed, maintained upon any lot or street.”

George, it is a 2019 Mercedes Sprinter that fits a standard parking space (19.5'). It is a stock van as built by Mercedes (i.e. no Overhang) with finished interior, it does not have any decals or graphics on outside panels.

Thank you all for you responses.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Thanks.

Does it have a toilet in it?

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

How old is the complex? Newer CCRs generally will prohibit your type of vehicle, but older communities will have less specific language.

SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310

Posted:

I would say it is not a mobile home but it is a similar structure so you can't keep it on the property.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

In my opinion, although I think the language needs to be changed, your van would be similar to a mobile home or a truck camper. Hence, despite the language gray area, it should be parked in your garage (if you have one) or off the property.

That said, as you can tell, there are some arguments that can be made.
Are you willing to make those arguments in court?

It would be less expensive to park the van off site and work to change the wording of the document.

The choice, of course, is yours.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

I ask for when the CCRs were created because terminology has changed and the CCRs needed to be updated with them. The language should be more specific. Mobile homes are now essentially manufactured home. Recreational vehicles and motorhomes are the new norm and your documents need to keep pace.

In my opinion, the rule is unenforceable, but, then again, arguing in front a non compassionate judge is a crap shoot.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Andi,

Does the Rec Van have a built in toilet?

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

What does a toilet have to do with the price of tea in China

AndiS1 (California)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Thank you all for your time and responses.

MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414

Posted:

Hi Andi,

Your RV could be considered a mobile home, so the answer is maybe. You could make the argument that you cannot live in your RV since it does not have any facilities.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I am assuming Andi is not answering my question regarding the toilet, because there is a toilet.

My logic path, would hinge directly in this, initially. If there is a toilet, it is a living facility ... on wheels.

So, IMO the HOA is well within its docs to prevent this housing on wheels.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/27/2020 11:56 AM
I am assuming Andi is not answering my question regarding the toilet, because there is a toilet.

My logic path, would hinge directly in this, initially. If there is a toilet, it is a living facility ... on wheels.

So, IMO the HOA is well within its docs to prevent this housing on wheels.

I agree.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Change the CCRs, or tough sh$t

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Not needed.

I think they have this circumstance covered.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AndiS1 on 05/25/2020 9:04 AM
Tim, here is the language from CCR, “No mobile home, trailer of any kind, permanent tent, or similar structure, and no truck camper or boat, shall be kept, placed, maintained upon any lot or street.”
... it is a 2019 Mercedes Sprinter that fits a standard parking space (19.5'). It is a stock van as built by Mercedes (i.e. no Overhang) with finished interior, it does not have any decals or graphics on outside panels.

These Mercedes Sprinters with finished interiors appear to be camper vans. Some have bathrooms, either installed by Mercedes or installed by an contractor the owner hired. I agree with TimB4's remarks and others who think the van as parked violates the covenants.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

I disagree and is why I asked for the age of the community and its documents. If the documents are 30-40 years or more older RV's as they exist now, didn't exist. You can't just lump newer vehicles into older language documents just because it fits your narrative.

I agree the newer language in CCRs is banning RV's but in order to do the language must be in the documents, not just close. No one 50 years ago was looking into a crystal ball.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

A sprinter van really isn't a mobile home aka "Trailer House." If it fits within a traditional parking space, I'm not sure it's worth the fight.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

The Mercedes Sprinter is a work van. What the OP is identifying is RV conversion of the Sprinter.

Be responsible, change/update the language.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkW18 on 05/28/2020 1:09 PM
The Mercedes Sprinter is a work van.

I believe there are work van versions and RV versions (sold that way from the dealer) of the Mercedes Sprinter.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Mercedes only makes the shell. Dealers that specialize in conversions will convert the shell into a RV.

I own a Prevost motor coach converted by Marathon Coach.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

The Mercedes Sprinter can be and often is an RV.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 05/28/2020 3:54 PM
The Mercedes Sprinter can be and often is an RV.

There are at least ten times more work vans than RV's. My brother-in law, who is a plumber has two of them.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AndiS1 on 05/25/2020 9:04 AM
it is a 2019 Mercedes Sprinter that fits a standard parking space (19.5'). It is a stock van as built by Mercedes (i.e. no Overhang) with finished interior, it does not have any decals or graphics on outside panels.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

This is an RV ... it is not a work vehicle ... it might even be a violation as a work vehicle in this HOA..

Based on what OP has said, they are in violation.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 05/28/2020 4:11 PM

Who converted the Sprinter to a RV, not Mercedes.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/28/2020 5:02 PM
This is an RV ... it is not a work vehicle ... it might even be a violation as a work vehicle in this HOA..

Based on what OP has said, they are in violation.

Sorry, this vehicle does not fit the description as posted from the CCRs. Close only counts in horseshoes.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I believe it does, and the HOA can, and should cite the OP for violating the CCRs.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/28/2020 5:45 PM
I believe it does, and the HOA can, and should cite the OP for violating the CCRs.

Please tell me where recreational vehicles are prohibited.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I would attempt to influence my board to take this to court.

The OP sounds like another who wants to be “special.”

Let the court sort it out, assuming the OP wants to go that route.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Not surprised, but you would lose.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Nope. Probable win.

And, the OP would be many, many personal bucks lighter afterwards ... plus the OP would get to contribute to the HOA legal fees, as well.

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