American Flags and Flagpoles in Virginia

Started by MikeS1 • 14 replies • 2893 views

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MikeS1
Posts: 658

Posted:

Ok, Virginians, We do we stand with Flags and Flagpoles in the Commonwealth now? I thought that they changed the laws on this in July 2007 in the state of Virginia. I have to empathize with the Veteran and feel like he should be able to fly his flag. It sounds like the HOA just objects to the flag pole and not neccessarily the flag. What are you thoughts on this? See article. http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2007/102007/10032007/321060

MikeS1
Posts: 658

Posted:

Of course I meant to say "Where do we stand?"

CharlesW1
Posts: 817

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeS1 on 10/04/2007 12:54 PM
Ok, Virginians, We do we stand with Flags and Flagpoles in the Commonwealth now? I thought that they changed the laws on this in July 2007 in the state of Virginia. I have to empathize with the Veteran and feel like he should be able to fly his flag. It sounds like the HOA just objects to the flag pole and not neccessarily the flag. What are you thoughts on this? See article. http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2007/102007/10032007/321060

I completely agree with you. From what I’ve read it isn’t the FLAG (he’s a very patriotic man) . It’s the FLAG POLE,PERIOD which is the problem. The association is quoted in saying that it wasn’t the flag at all and ever made suggestion on how to be in compliance. What more should the association do?

That particular articled is very upsetting to me. The media is known for “ruffling” feathers. They twist the truth about every little thing, and they will not lie, nor will they report the truth, complete truth that is! They report controversial topics to obtain as many readers as possible. Think about it, that’s what “sells”?

Honestly, would anyone be reading their articles if they weren’t? Probably not!

Look you read it and now everyone who reads your post will also read it and will likely share their opinion, just what “they” wanted.

The media tends to glorify, the wrong doing by broadcasting “condoning” their actions.

When was that last time you recall the news reporting anything positive about the war, health care, SS, or the water drought etc, etc.? You’ll need to think long and hard because there isn’t many.

I’m sorry “IF” I’ve offend anyone. I’m as patriotic as they come. I can’t say I know how our soldiers feel or how those who have fought in previous wars feel, let alone their families. However being a very intelligent man I can relate.

I don’t want anyone reading this post to feel that I’m being disrespectful in any way shape or form. I completely 100% agree with flying an AMERICAN flag. I personally wouldn’t be bother either by the flag pole, but I feel if you give an inch, people will talk a foot and more, some, not all!

Rules are established and meant to be followed. PERIOD

Where do you draw the line?!

Chuck W.

DonnaS
Posts: 5,596

Posted:

Mike and Charles,

Having been the lead author of our ARC manual and being V.P. of our HOA, I am sure that this has nothing to do with you or your ability to fly the American flag. It is the pole, location of the pole or did you get approval to install the pole. What would I do? I would contact the ARC if you have one OR have a meeting with the Board and see what they feel is resolution to this. They cannot stop you from flying your beautiful flag but they can control how it is displayed. Do start a dialog and find out how to fix this situation. Best of Luck to you.
Donna, as a BOD member,

NancyD1
Posts: 446

Posted:

The following are two articles are about lawsuits that HOA's brought against homeowners about their flags:

http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?c957abc75-5645-4016-af5f-ad624ff06272
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/search/content/local_news/epaper/2007/09/13/c3b_flag_0913

This is a statute in Florida 720 HOA :
2) Any homeowner may display one portable, removable United States flag or official flag of the State of Florida in a respectful manner, and on Armed Forces Day, Memorial Day, Flag Day, Independence Day, and Veterans Day may display in a respectful manner portable, removable official flags, not larger than 41/2 feet by 6 feet, which represent the United States Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard, regardless of any declaration rules or requirements dealing with flags or decorations.

There is no definition or reference to a flag pole or location.

This is also in FL 720, SLAPP suits are a part of the US constitution:

(4) It is the intent of the Legislature to protect the right of parcel owners to exercise their rights to instruct their representatives and petition for redress of grievances before the various governmental entities of this state as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 5, Art. I of the State Constitution. The Legislature recognizes that "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation" or "SLAPP" suits, as they are typically called, have occurred when members are sued by individuals, business entities, or governmental entities arising out of a parcel owner's appearance and presentation before a governmental entity on matters related to the homeowners' association. However, it is the public policy of this state that government entities, business organizations, and individuals not engage in SLAPP suits because such actions are inconsistent with the right of parcel owners to participate in the state's institutions of government. Therefore, the Legislature finds and declares that prohibiting such lawsuits by governmental entities, business entities, and individuals against parcel owners who address matters concerning their homeowners' association will preserve this fundamental state policy, preserve the constitutional rights of parcel owners, and assure the continuation of representative government in this state. It is the intent of the Legislature that such lawsuits be expeditiously disposed of by the courts.

DaneC
Posts: 202

Posted:

And the rockets’ red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free, and the home of the brave?

The Salem Fields HOA property manager, who asked not to be identified, says Stack can attach the flag to his house or garage, and in the notice, she cites the section that prohibits the pole.

Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005
SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

SEC. 4. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with--
(1) any provision of chapter 1 of title 4, United States Code, or any rule or custom pertaining to the proper display or use of the flag of the United States (as established pursuant to such chapter or any otherwise applicable provision of law); or

(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.

Flags are designed to be affixed to poles, that's why they are called flagpoles! A flagpole should not considered a resonable restriction.
AT least California got it right, in its definition of restrictions - i.e. the material composition -
1353.5. (a) Except as required for the protection of the public
health or safety, no declaration or other governing document shall
limit or prohibit, or be construed to limit or prohibit, the display
of the flag of the United States by an owner on or in the owner's
separate interest or within the owner's exclusive use common area, as
defined in Section 1351.
(b) For purposes of this section, "display of the flag of the
United States" means a flag of the United States made of fabric,
cloth, or paper displayed from a staff or pole or in a window, and
does not mean a depiction or emblem of the flag of the United States
made of lights, paint, roofing, siding, paving materials, flora, or
balloons, or any other similar building, landscaping, or decorative
component.

The old expression - you need an act of congress to change that, was done, the Act was specific to the HOA regime, and still the quagmire continues!

I salute our flag and our Veteran Mr. Stack.

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DaneC
Posts: 202

Posted:

It was clearly the intent of the House, that flagpoles were acceptable, at least that's how I read the Congressional record of the house. Mr. Moore speaks of "raising" the flag, which can only be done on a flagpole -

Mr. MOORE of Kansas. Mr. Speaker,
I thank the gentleman for his comments,
and I rise today in support of
H.R. 42, the Freedom to Display the
American Flag Act.
This bill, as the gentleman stated,
provides that a condominium association,
a cooperative association, or residential
real estate management association
may not prohibit a resident of
the association from displaying an
American flag on their property within
the association.
American citizens should not be prevented
from expressing simple acts of
patriotism, especially raising the flag
on their own property, even if their
property is part of a larger association
of properties.

Mr. Green of Texas specifically spoke about being told about a flagpole by a constituent -

Mr. GENE GREEN of Texas. Mr. Speaker,
I rise today in favor of H.R. 42, the Freedom
to Display the American Flag Act. This bill
would allow homeowners to fly the American
flag on their own property in accordance with
the U.S. Flag Code.
I signed on to this bill because I have a constituent
who was told by his homeowners association
that his flagpole and his display of
the American flag were in violation of their association
rules.
Homeowners should have the freedom to
display the American flag on their property.
Our flag represents our country as a symbol of
our patriotism, unity, and most of all bravery.
Right now our service men and women are
courageously fighting the war on terrorism and
putting their lives on the line every day to protect
our great Nation and the freedoms that
we hold so dearly.
This bill guarantees the homeowner the ability
display the flag and show their support for
this great Nation.
We must always remember the sacrifices
others have made so that we enjoy the freedoms
we have. The flag should never be considered
an eyesore on property.

Here is an excerpt from a letter by Rose E. Lee, Chair of the Leglislative Committee, Gold Star Wives of America -

How unpatriotic of
these association managers for their absurd
rules. Those management rules are senseless.
They should be encouraging flying the American
flag, not discouraging it.
Our soldiers continue to serve and die for
our country to make it free—free to fly the
American flag, especially on our own property.

Here is a link - the record is from pages H4574 through page H4576.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=h4574&dbname=2006_record

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CharlesW1
Posts: 817

Posted:

To all,

I have read and reread all the previously written posts. I would like to make it very clear, that I and the majority of associations are NOT, I repeat are NOT saying you CAN’T or SHOULDN’T display the American flag, however the associations (many) and I are saying you can not have a FLAG POLE.

I…………knew this post was going to raise a lot of controversy among those of us who are patriotic. As the ole saying goes “build a bridge and get over it”

He is given every right to fly an American flag as we all are, although it can not be “raised” if his patriotism is based upon “raising” the flag, which is pretty sad. IMO!

It reminds me of a position, Sen. Barack Obama had announced, saying he was no longer going to wear the American Flag pin he was known for wearing, because he felt it was false representation of his patriotism for his county, instead” he says he would rather verbally express his loyalty” That’s great and he should feel that way, however, I feel you are ever more patriotic by wearing the pin as well as speaking out about American freedoms.

Basically he is saying because he was wearing the pin, that is the reasons for not showing his patriotism or loyalty to his country. GRRRRRRRRRRRR don’t get me started. This isn’t a political issue! IMO, I feel he is actually hurting his chances to be our President with such an ignorant stand.

It appears he is going to be losing to the previous lady of the house, anyway.

I guess the “worser” of the two evils; she would have my vote also.

Chuck W.

DonnaS
Posts: 5,596

Posted:

CharlesW1,

While I totally agree with all of your patriotic statements, you have to be much more careful in your violation of hoatalk rule number 3 for postings
It states NO NAMES MAY BE USED. I understand that you were trying to get your point across about patriotism and we all got that point.
Just a reminder, this is not a political board. Thank You!

CharlesW1
Posts: 817

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaS on 10/05/2007 6:55 AM

CharlesW1,

While I totally agree with all of your patriotic statements, you have to be much more careful in your violation of hoatalk rule number 3 for postings
It states NO NAMES MAY BE USED. I understand that you were trying to get your point across about patriotism and we all got that point.
Just a reminder, this is not a political board. Thank You!

DonnaS,

You are 100% correct. I apologize to you,HOATalk and everyone who reads/posts to this HOA discussion forum. I wasn’t trying to do anything other than to provide detailed information pertaining to a related situation being discussed.

Not to sound unappreciative of your reminder, by any means, but. Wouldn’t your reminder of the rules, be much like the current discussion previously posted, HMMMMMM Sounds like much of the same to me.

The association’s documents state no flag poles, yet when reminded of his violation (violation notice) he refused to comply in a prompt manner, resulting in the fine. Please explain to me how those two situations aren’t similar in some way, shape or form.

The association NEVER claimed that an American flag couldn’t be displayed?! We are both clear on that. Correct? The association has only restricted (one of many) ways to display the American flag. ** Flagpole**

Sounds like the pot is calling the kettle black, IMO

Chuck W.

JohnB7
Posts: 154

Posted:

The flagpole must be installed in a building code compliant fashion.

Code would regulate the method of anchoring the pole in the ground and it's required wind resistance in addition to (location dependant) it's maximum height.

MOST IMPORTANT; THE POLE MUST BE INSTALLED SO THAT IF IT FALLS IT WILL NOT OBSTRUCT THE ROADWAY OR ACCESS TO ANY BUILDING.

A 'properly' installed and maintained flagpole is EXTREMELY expensive and not readily available at a 'big box' store.

RobertS10
Posts: 1

Posted:

I would like information from any HOA who has modified their CCR's to allow flag poles. Please provide exact verbiage.

Thanks!!

BarbaraM7
Posts: 86

Posted:

Our HOA rules state the pole must not be free-standing. The pole has to be attached to the deck or fence to prevent property damage if the thing falls over, because they are not allowed to dig a hole and fill it with concrete. Flag brackets must be attached at the front of the house, next to the front door, or to the deck.

BarbaraM7
Posts: 86

Posted:

Thing falling over in regards to a free-standing pole without concrete footings.

DJ1
Posts: 791

Posted:

Some of the legislation says "in a respectful manner".

Does stapling a flag to the side of the house meet that or as some posters have mentioned, was the intent the legislation to allow the flag to fly on a flagpole? As a public school student I was charged with raising the flag outside our school in the morning. There were certain protocol to the handling of the flag. ie don't let it touch the ground etc.

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