Presidents own agenda

Now I don't want to offend anyone or step on toes but I was wondering what you think about the President contacting real estate agencies to have them advertise our community as a Gayborhood. Meaning, Gay-Lesbian-Transgender, etc. My parents own the unit and they are older and when they found out they were livid. I do not like the fact that he is doing this in our neighborhood which already has enough challenges with gang activity and I fear retaliation by way of more vandalism. Does anyone else see this as wrong since me or my neighbors don't have a platform to work off of with our beliefs.

MindyD,
Also consult your CC&Rs to find what your documents say as for "single family residents " or whatever the wording is. This guy would be on the bottom of the pond if I lived there and he took it upon himself to okay that advertising. That is a personal issue and should not generalize the entire community.

Also, did he do this because he is trying to sell his place? And yes, do call the real estate agent and inform him that no where in your Documents, does it classify your association that way. Demand it being removed and tell the President that he will be taken to task on his doing this without approval from the other members of the community.

I think that the real issue here is that this President did this on his own. Federal Law prohibits discrimination against these kind of issues but there will always be anti's against anything . The issue---can the President do this on his own. I say "NO".

Thank you DonnaS that is what I was trying to say.

So, what you are saying is, YOU are monitoring the association's email?

You periodically go in and "check" them (the emails) to keep an "eye on him" because when he became president, he, within is right it would seem to me, tried to remove your access to the association's email box?

And so you found, what? Emails to realtors? That he says what, exactly?

Excuse me if I have an air of skepticism about me, but I find some of your story somewhat disingenuous, regardless of (paraphrasing) "some of your best friends being gay."

Again, without having any of the details beyond "he's telling realtors we're a gayborhood" it's really hard to say what, if anything he's actually done wrong.

Perhaps you could share with us one of the emails, with the pertinent identifying information removed.

I much prefer seeing what was said as opposed to reading someone's interpretation of it.

I just still feel you are not being completely honest with us.

You claimed that your parents were "livid" when they "found out." Yet, from what you have written, it appears they would have only found out if you had shared the emails with them. Which, it would seem to me, would be a bit of an issue in and of itself.

Am I not analyzing that correctly? Did you and they find out some other way?

And, even so, I still do not know EXACTLY what you "found out."

What was the content that was so egregious? That he asked some realtors to expand their marketing efforts to include the gay community?

Interesting.

AMEN! RobertR1

DonnaS? With all due respect:

" I think that the real issue here is that this President did this on his own. Federal Law prohibits discrimination against these kind of issues but there will always be anti's against anything . The issue---can the President do this on his own. I say "NO"."

How do you know he can't? We have no idea what their governing documents say, she did not offer any verbage AND we don't even REALLY know what it is he's done. We only have a vague assertion. So, as I'm sure you have answered conservatively to other posters when we don't have complete information, wouldn't it be a little premature to judge so definitively whether he was or was not within his role to do this on his own?

AND if the documents aren't clear about it, then wouldn't it be in our best interest to know really exactly what it was he DID do before we pass some sort of thumbs up or thumbs down?

Michele,

If the developer or any HOA put in their documents anything referring to a gay only community they would be in violation of the Federal Discrimination Laws. You cannot specify that it's only gays. If they could, then next door they can advertise that it is an all Catholic neighborhood or an all white or all black neighborhood.

Yes there are many vacation destination spots, hotels, restaurants and bars that advertise that they want to attract the gay lifestyle. These are public domains, and I have the right to give them my business or not. A home is private.

MicheleD,
Thank you for your input on my post.
My intention was to refocus on the original post concerning "can the President act by himself to have the community listed as he did. In responding to the original post, we start discussions with whatever information that we recieve. Usually, after a few members get into the discussions, we get more input and usually get a concensus of opinion from some very knowledgable people. We are not writting legal papers or prepairing for court, but just sorting out opinions.
We all know that everyone has to refer to their Docs to get the real answers.

Conservative??? --- Who, me?

NancyD said: "If the developer or any HOA put in their documents anything referring to a gay only community they would be in violation of the Federal Discrimination Laws."

I would certainly agree with you. Although Seniors seem to have found a way around that, that's probably another topic for another time.

However, going back to the original post, that's not what is going on here, unless you know something we don't.

What it appears is going on here is nothing more than a marketing program. And, yes, advertisers CAN target specific markets, and they can advertise a product, including a home, as being in a community that has points of interest that the target audience may prefer to be in that community, EVEN if the target audience is Catholics or gays.

and a resident found out about some communication between the president of the HOA and some realtors, in a way that may or may not have been either ethical or legal, and then jumped the shark and shared that information with other residents. At least her parents. Probably others. But we don't really know that either.

"rationalizing" it? I do not understand that word in this context. There is no "rationalization" of anything.

I think some people are confusing marketing tactics with something else, though I'm not sure what.

I realize some of my replies have been lengthy, and include a few typos and dropped words possibly, but otherwise I think they're pretty clear.

Of course I realize we generally get one-sided stories. That's why I analyze what a poster is trying to say as best as I can before I reply. Sometimes I still get nothing meaningful from the post. Sometimes I discover some very telling comments. I don't think she realizes she told on herself the way she did.

I still have greater issues with a non-HOA board member monitoring an HOA's email box to (paraphrasing) keep an eye on its PRESIDENT!! because he asked her to terminate her connection to the email box than I do with an HOA president who may (or may not) have overstepped his bounds in reaching out to realtors in the area, REGARDLESS of the type of marketing they engage in.

Now, she may come back with a reasonable explanation as to WHY she still accesses and "monitors" the HOA's email box, which would resolve some of the issues I have with her post.

But that would still leave me concerned that rather than approaching the President or the board with HER concerns, she shares the emails with others.

So I, too, see ethical lapses here, based on what we know so far, but I attribute more weight to hers than I do the potential ethical lapses of the president, with or without the "gaydar", simply because their documents could address his behavior, but I don't see where the documents can address hers.

WOW I see I have created a monster here. I will try to explain as much as I can with out taking up too much space, why I have concerns. I moved into this place because my parents bought it for me since I went on disability, this is my home. The HOA was in sad shape with terrible decisions being mad financially and a year later we got a whole new board. I wanted to help out and be involved so when the elections came around I know I was nominated a few times and when the day to vote came my name was not on the list, too afraid to ask then I found out later it was because my name was not on the deed. I can live with that but the presidents name is not on the deed either he is in the same situation as me, and he told the others that was why he was taking my name off. I used to do the newsletter and I was waiting for the info from him to finish it when I received a newsletter on my door. I have a strange feeling this guy does not like me. Anyhow the email address was set up by me and managed by me and its purpose was for the others to have somewhere to go to for assistance or info. It was never meant for his eyes only and I informed him I was changing the passwords and my personal info back and password protecting it so the same password could still be used by the entire board. I believe in confidentiality so no emails were discussed but he does not speak to anyone here anyhow. I have found many cases where he has divulged personal financial info and is pretty nasty to vendors where they have mentioned a lawyer and well hell I want to know where my money is going and how we are being represented. What I mean by my platform is, because I don't have children I am not trying to make this a Adult Only place, or a Dogs Owners Only. I read the fair houseing act and I believe in it, that is my point. If my parents don't want this advertised as a Gayborhood, that is their right but they did not have the choice to vote on the issue or not.

Robert, I never once said that neither she nor her parents were out of line in their reaction to anything. I don't know where you got that from my posts. That her parents were livid is no doubt the way my own parents would react. I was not addressing the target of their ire, only what I saw as the unethical manner in which it was instigated. Again, I still feel that they would NOT have been in such a tither had she herself not been monitoring an email box that she should not have access to and then she choose to share what she learned their with them, thus triggering their lividness.

I DID try to shed some light (not to her parents, because not only do I not know them, but I really don't care what their fears or biases are) on the misperception that I sensed from posters that because a firm markets a neighborhood a certain way that it is some "legal" designation of a neighborhood or that it even is meant as an exclusive -- whatever -- of the neighborhood.

I still believe, going back over the posts that everyone has made, that there was an initial gut reaction to the term "gayborhood." I did not open that chest. The original poster did. I have no intention of changing anyone's perception of gays moving into their neighborhoods (I still contend that gay people are already in people's neighborhoods, so what would my point be there?)

But I will admit I did perceive an immediate knee-jerk reaction that the president was out of line before we even ASKED the question of what that line really is. And, yes, I do think that reaction was a direct result of the TYPE of marketing/advertising that the poster claimed he was participating in. If I was mistaken about that, then I stand corrected. And I directly apologize to anyone who feels I was doing so. Only the posters who replied know what their motivation in some of the comments were.

I'll repeat this from an earlier post I made: . . . I find it a little unreasonable to assume that neighbors could sue a realtor for availing him or herself of such a market and positioning his product however he feels appropriate.

Chances are very likely that many of our own neighborhoods could be on a realtor's marketing materials somewhere as a "gay friendly" or "gaybhorhood" or some similar listing. That's the point I'm trying to make. We, as residents in the community, have no more control over how a particular realtor wants to market or the target market to which they want to sell to than we would if they were targeting an African-American market or any other demographic. To imply that we could go to them and demand they stop marketing our neighborhood in any manner is a little extreme, in my opinion.

This is what I have always presumed the original poster was asking:

Does a president of an HOA have any business dealing directly with realtors regarding how they sell or who they sell to?

My answer (and I know any other's is the same): That really depends. We still don't have enough information.

Our first HOA president was a realtor. Many of us suspect that was a significant reason he even stepped up to the plate for the role. He had several listings in the neighborhood at the time, some that came after he was elected. I'm sure not a one of us have any idea what his advertising materials were regarding the listings in our neighborhood.

I would guess that this is a scenario played out in many HOAs and COAs across the country.

I think we are in what I term "violent agreement" regarding the key issues. (violent agreement = people arguing, coming into a discussion from different angles, but still having consensus on the ultimate points.)

I would still be interested in hearing from the other posters regarding my previous questions.

I'm guessing we won't hear back from the original poster since I have questioned her authority to open the Association's email box and monitor its contents.

She may have been the one to initially open the email address, but that does not give her unfettered access to the email address in perpetuity. Especially since she already indicated that the President asked her to remove her access. I am the person who opened the three email boxes for our HOA, but I can assure you, when I leave the board or if someone else steps forward for email duty, then I will suggest they change the passwords. I would not ONCE consider opening the email box and reading what was there. And I certainly wouldn't share the contents of any of them if some some bizarre reason I "inadvertently" accessed it.

(My apologies, YET AGAIN, for long-windedness. It's getting to be a trademark )

I would think any real estate agency doing that would be accused of steering, which violates FHA.

Love Thy Neighbor ! I have not called the President on the carpet for anything except the name on the deed issue and it is only the day after that he is in there changing my password to keep me out. Board of directors change frequently and getting an address with your associations name on it is hard to do now, and I am the one who gave them the password when we had a full board to go in and read mail from the tenants, it was intended as a form of communication for the residents not to conduct private hoa business with and he can go get his own dang email address for that. I consider it my address with my DOB, name, sex, phone nu mber etc. and he did not check with me before changing the password and all that info I just wrote down. I am interested in community bliss. I might be in denial but I won't accept that because my name is not on the deed "because of financial reasons" I have to sit back and let decisions about my home be made and there is nothing I can do about it. I originally just wanted to know if others felt that was wrong before I mentioned it to him, thats all. I am sorry but I can not show any emails to you, it would not be right and I am wrong for showing them to my parents but oh well they are my parents. I do thank everyone for your help by giving me another point of view, I learn alot from this site and if they don't ban me from here now I will be asking more questions in the future. The management company deal is a whole new ball game.

Mindy said: "Board of directors change frequently and getting an address with your associations name on it is hard to do now, and I am the one who gave them the password when we had a full board to go in and read mail from the tenants, it was intended as a form of communication for the residents not to conduct private hoa business with and he can go get his own dang email address for that. I consider it my address with my DOB, name, sex, phone nu mber etc. and he did not check with me before changing the password and all that info I just wrote down."

I personally think you are wrong and your continued use of the mailbox, in my opinion, is unethical.

If it were an email box intended for the HOA and the board's use, even as a COMMUNICATION (!!) tool for the residents, and you are NOT on the board, even though you originally "set up" the address and helped them "maintain" it at their request, you should gracefully turn it over now that the board has changed and, obviously, your roll has changed.

Yes, Board membership changes, but they are not idiots who are not capable of updating and changing passwords as the board membership changes. We turn over the keys to all kinds of things as the board changes, and the "virtual keys" to the email box is certainly part of that transitioning. Heck, we had someone who moved out of the neighborhood years ago set up a POST OFFICE box for us, her name and address were on the contact sheet, but it was clearly a mailbox for the purpose of receiving HOA-related materials. She can no more claim "ownership" of that post office box, ethically, than you can of the virtual "mail" box simply because you were the one who created it. Had she kept a KEY and was periodically going back to snoop and see what sort of mail has come in, woah, that would be a major issue.

If you want to claim "ownership" of the email address then you need to make sure that anyone who uses it (ie, sends email to it) understands that they are communicating with YOU and not the HOA or the board.

I set up 3 email boxes for my association. I can no more now claim they belong to ME simply because I set them up if the intention of them from the beginning was to be a communication medium for the Association.

And, quite frankly, if the president or the treasurer or anyone else wants to use the address to send communications, that is within THEIR purview not mine.

It was generous of you to spend your time to set up and maintain the box, but it's time to let it go. You may be opening yourself up to a variety of unintended consequences.

Our townhome community is 2 years old. It was built by Portrait Homes, and they don't build retirement communitites on SC. I wouldn't have been old enough to buy/live in one. It was never described in company literature as reaching to any particular demographic, and I purchased before he did. Carolina Forest in Myrtle Beach is a huge, family oriented part of town, with blue ribbon schools and no fewer than 12 houses of worship planned for construction. There were owner families living here before he even moved in. We have an Horry County school bus stop in front of the community.

We just had three more units come on the market from investors who are fed up with the BoD's treatment of their renters. Pleases him just fine as he is attempting to get rid of renters.

And, yes, renters are the owner's responsibility, but even in a 55+, I don't believe you can rent to people under that age...

I've been trying to figure it out, too. But there is no other place to go when these out of town investors SAY it is because of the BoD, and they feel at a serious disadvantage with the BoD's open hostility to renters and feeling forced to sell in a down market. Because of the crowded dorm conditions at Coastal University, a number of parents bought units for their kids to live in and share with buddies. I used the same sales angle when working for Portrait. Bob knew that. The last owner/investor put his on the market when his renter came out to find his car on the tow truck. His tire was three inches off his drive into the grass. You can't park on the grass.

It's a shame. My attorney is preparing a letter to go out next week, asking for the minutes, a members list, a reiteration of the reasons I desire to spend a thousand on a patio to correct a defect... I hope to use the minutes to find the truth behind the vote on the patio and what the requests were of others seeking modifications, a members list because (in part) the BoD doesn't give anyone whose asked a specific on then number of investor units we have, and a second request to be nice. AFter all, all they can do is to turn it down. We've just discovered since the last go round that the BoD is in fact aware of standing water problems and the sub out to fix it in common areas, and that another community has sued the developer for similar defects by the same sub. I'd rather just repair the patio at my expense.

In the preseident's possible defense, the sales agent here used a number of tactics and made conversation during sales presentations he should not have as he set up unreal expectations. He would say things such as "most are buying second homes." That would change to a reference of to most being "cash buyers." Others would be to people buying ten units in a block. The only legal thing one can say about a clientele is to invite someone to drive around, look at the community and decide for yourself, unless, of course, it IS a 55+ community. Then, you can play it up all you want. But if you see toys, work trucks, cars with school insgnias, maybe you shouldmove on if you can't live with it. But there is nothing in our paperwork that positively identifies our community as another other than one you can buy into if you qualify... The prices started in the 70K, and these people are acting as if they bought in the Grand Dunes. This isn't to say that anyone should be exempt from observing the rules and that there shouldn't be decorum and the like, but, if anything, who would that price point appeal to? Possibly first time buyers, people wanting an inexpensive second home, investors buying up blocks to flip... Many of us hail from the Upper Northeast where the prices sounded like bargain basement opportuities. All of our BoD are from CT, NJ, and NY. I was the only Southerner (MD) and just a committee member.

I want to be involved. In fact, I was on three committees at first. I hope to be again. It will take work and I hope not to be discouraged. Ironic that I have a place in Surfside, two blocks from the ocean, and these are selling in the mid 500k. Their HOA runs like clockwork. So, I DO know there is hope! In fact, my renter there is thinking of moving on, so that might be the thing for me. But it still doesn't change the fact that I do need to remedy my physical problem with my home.

I'll get a copy of the Act.

I saw the pictures and three inches onto grass that you own was just too much. The tow driver ended up not taking the car, and Bob backed down with "aw, he was just supposed to put an orange stickey on your car." Parking on the grass in our community means that you cannot parallel park on the street on the grass in common areas as our streets are pretty narrow. This man was in his driveway parked three inches too far, somthing he misjudged because of big tires. It was the same week the BoD President told others to park in handicapped spaces with impunity as those spaces shouldn't have been, IHO, in the community anyway. When I took my walk that morning, I couldn't even tell the guy touched grass. It seemed like a case of really looking hard to find a violation from the same guy who won't move his trash can, but who cites you for the same thing.

The BoD has the membership list. The investors who are leasing are supposed to have leases on file. As well, remember when you take out a mortgage, you disclose your intentions for the property. Mortgage programs differ with certain criteria. Also, when your main addy isn't in the community, that would cause one to think you are an investor. Some have been left vacant.

We've got some great renters. We have some lousy ones, and we have some lousy owners. You are right; absentee owners have little idea what goes on, but they certainly know when their renters are complaining and want to move out. Mine will be an annual rental at some point. I don't deny that we grow with our experiences. I hope to here as well. I don't mind renters. Some of the flippers became landlords unwillingly when the market conditions changed here. However, I still want mine to attract a caliber renter and at a top rate. You get some because the guy just needs someone to make the nut. I don't believe the builder should have sold blocks of units to individuals or investment groups. They've since changed their policy, but only because of what it cost them,not the community.

I don't question that our rules and by-laws are not that restrictive, but I do see a quickness toward renters and a wilful disregard toward some owners over behavior.

As far as the patio, it is the protection of my investment that drives me. Pawley's Place isn't the lovely place it is because of Portrait Homes. Those owners got the same buildings and sparse trees that we did. What makes it lovely are the reinvestments owners made into their units with patios, sun rooms and additional landcaping matieral. You can sure see which would be the "rental" community between Sawgrass East and Pawley's Place... I would send photos if I had addresses.

VixkiB1,
I believe an "owner on record" means what it says, if you are an owner under your association laws, you would be a co=owner if more than one has interest in property, excludes mortgage company, etc.
All co-owners can have a voice but only those co=owners designated by the other co-owners in the unit has the vote.
That's my read on what our documents say (Condominium with apportioned votes). If more than one co-owner has the vote that is not fair as you can deduce. Our President is great on asking for a show of hands and then deciding what to do. I have tried and tried to tell the board this is absolutely wrong but he and Board won't hear it. They make statements like the "Majority rules", which is a crock in apportioned voting. Oh well.

I actually believe that most are stating that those not listed as owners, or having been provided that authority by owners - should not have a voice in HOA affairs. And I believe that is correctly aligned with what is often the best interests of the community. Each HOA is like a state on to itself - with codes/laws which affect those within its boundaries. I would not want a person from a neighboring community to speak or have influence in my HOA, unless invited.

However, an HOA decides with regards to allowing renters to speak at meetings, will run along the vein of each individual community. I can see both sides of that issue - you have positive renters who are concerned about pool hours/safety, and those type of issues. Flipside you have renters who want to see the HOA's budget, know why funds were spent on pool amenties, etc - that is not appropriate.

All of this business about names on titles, etc are PERSONAL choices that YOU made in your commitment relationship to the HOA. The HOA should not have to try and figure out what your choice was, how it impacts the community (access to HOA, etc) in dealing with "X" number of owners that they represent. It cannot be the benefit of the one, at the sake of the many. If you want to have a voice in HOA affairs, sans any personal "financial decisions," then spend a few hundred bucks (or go online and download "how to's...") on POA "Power of Attorney" for that relationship - and present to the HOA what your preferred status/interaction will be. The HOA did the courtesy of such to you - its all in the governing documents, on how the HOA would interact with you in most EVERY situation that could be enountered.

Just an observation, just because someone doesn't disclose all the details a subsequent poster feels should have been,doesn't mean the original poster had an agenda, or was trying to mislead.