Very interesting article

Started by NancyD1 • 11 replies • 1349 views

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NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

It happens in other states also, it may not only be in Florida. This is how east it is to recall a board.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flbcondocol1003sboct03,0,226863.column

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

NancyD1,
Thank you for giving that article location to all of these posters who go right after the thought of "Sueing the Board" My association just got finished with a 3 and 1/2 year long court battle which cost in total, over $65,000 and nobody won in the end. It was not a suit against the Board but our Board going after 2 non complyers. Same difference.

It was over something so stupid as a truck classification. The reason I am bringing this up is because when the Board tried to work this out peacefully, 2 of our illustrious "Lawyer" residents, threatened to Sue The Board for not enforcing the covenant which forbid pick-up trucks to be parked in the driveways. Our CC&R's state that they must be kept in the garages except for ingress and egress. These residents stated that they would fight us to the end because them being lawyers, it would not cost them a dime. Nice, Huh? So, off to court we went.

Judgement!!! 1 of them was a pickup truck because of it's year of manufacturing and the identical truck, which was 2 years newer, was not a truck. Now what do we do? Let one outside and one inside? The moral of this story is--ONLY AS A LAST RESORT, THINK ABOUT SUEING OR THREATENING YOUR BOARD. EVERYONE WILL LOSE. This cost neighbors to hate one another. Time will heal this but it was not worth it.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

DonnaS: Thanks for your very 'on the mark' post. It is a sorry state of affairs when we residents cannot work out our differences in living together.
It is so easy to say 'let's sue', to want to have the last word and get the bad guys good!...and unfortunately, the lawyers whether they are residents or not as your post states, are only too ready to assist. This is what is hurting HOA communities in the worse possible way. Its called wanting to be right at any cost.

You state tht your situation cost neighbors to hate one another but that you think time will heal...I sincerely hope you are right. It's not pleasant to live in a place where neighbors hate each other, where there is resentment and bad feelings all for the sake of proving one's power and wanting to be right.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

This hatred is/was caused by unreasonable rules. Nothing else. Over pickup trucks! So many of the controversies posted here can be traced back to unreasonable rules. But the lawyers love it. Harold

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

HaroldS,

Our homes are toward the million dollar mark. In a poll of the 565 homeowners, 92 percent agreed with the "Pick-Up truck covenant which reads

" Pickup trucks must be parked within the garage at all times except for ingress and egress."

We all have 3 car garages so this is not an unreasonable restriction. These were 2 Cadallac Escalade owners who developed an attitude of because of the costs of the trucks, they did not have to comply.
Identical Chevy Avalanches are garaged because they are classified as trucks. No problems with those guys.

BUT THE REAL ISSUE HERE IS---WHEN YOU BOUGHT YOUR HOME, YOU SIGNED AN AGREEMENT AT CLOSING THAT YOU WILL FOLLOW THE CC&R'S. PERIOD.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Donna - CC&Rs are not cast in concrete just because you signed them. Courts and states have and are amending them all the time. Mainly because they are unreasonable. In addition HOAs have the power to change their CC&Rs after you signed and agreed to the originals. Where is the informed consent there?
Your example of which pickups are violating your rules just illustrates how unreasonable your rules are. Those are very expensive, nice looking vehicles and am I supposed to think you would rather look at dented, rusted cars vs those pickups - just because they are cars and allowed? Silly isn't it?
Please explain the visible blight created by pickups. In reasonable terms of course. Harold

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Hey Harold,
I did not write them, just enforce them. Unreasonable is in the eyes of the offender.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Still waiting for your reasoning of blight from pick up trucks. Can't do it, eh?
And no - unreasonable is not just in the eyes of the offender. Courts and states define it all the time. Perhaps one of your pick up truck offenders has the deep pockets to challenge your rules. Harold

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Harold,
No, the trucks are not blight. The challenge is because there are some people who just will not follow any rules. Like it? Then stay, Don't like it?, Then leave. The answer is simple. As I said, they all know the CC&R's when they purchase.
Would I go to a rally where I don't agree with the theme? NO.! Would I go to a movie that I don't like the subject? NO! Would I live somewhere where I don't like the rules? NO!. See where I'm going with this Harold?

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Harold, when 92% of the the homeowners agree it is a very strong argument of being reasonable. Never have I experienced this high of consensus. It really doesn't matter whether or not you or I think the rule is reasonable. What matters is that it is the rule in that community.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Roger and Everyone,

The pick up truck issue will never go away. There are cases in the courts weekly with this same problem. This is Florida and people are passionate about their trucks.

As chair of our Documents Committee, and after the almost 3 year legal battle against the 2 Escalade EXT owners, I initiated the survey to see if the members would be willing to "tweek" this pick up truck covenant. The 92% were very adament in not messing with that particular covenant. And out of the 565 homes in the developement, there were 518 responses. It was a MAJOR big deal with the owners because we had spent the $65,000 on the court case. Guess where that money came from? The "ugly special asessment" monster.

The general feeling was that once we started to allow these trucks, as very nice and expensive as they were, we would then start to have to allow less than nice trucks outside of their garages. So the owners have spoken. There is never going to be a solution to this until all rules go away or all trucks go away. In the mean time, we follow the rules

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

I know one thing, you can argue about it till hell freezes over but any action must be made by the owners in the associations, not on this site.
Opinions we can offer, if we think the rules are unreasonable or plain wrong, we can say so but no way can we decide if one pick up looks better than the other. And I bet there is small chance we can change anothers opinion of what the solution is to these problems. After all is said and done, we have to go to the CC&r's. Fault there is they are not all the same.

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