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SashaE1
Posts: 110

Posted:

Hello,

I am a new Board Member and have a few questions:
1. Do Homeowners have the right to know the bids from vendors for a particular service that the Board is considering?
2. Do Homeowners have the right to see executed contracts and know what were the prices of the other vendors that the Board did not go with to make sure the Board members went with the best bid?
3. If communication is shared with Board members in an e-mail, can Homeowners be informed of the content?
4. If there is a Board members meeting only like a private discussion called by one Board member but not an executive session, can that information be shared with Homeowners?
5. How do we get rid of a Board member who shares executive session information with Homeowners repeatedly when the other Board members are jer friend and cover up for her? Can the Homeowners throw her out of the Board? Can I report her to some agency that overlooks the Board to ensure they are following the laws?
6. What if a Board wants to change a vendor but the Homeowners disagree? Do the homeowners have any power or say to not terminate the contract with the current vendor?

Thanks in advance.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM
Hello,

I am a new Board Member and have a few questions:
1. Do Homeowners have the right to know the bids from vendors for a particular service that the Board is considering?
2. Do Homeowners have the right to see executed contracts and know what were the prices of the other vendors that the Board did not go with to make sure the Board members went with the best bid?
3. If communication is shared with Board members in an e-mail, can Homeowners be informed of the content?
4. If there is a Board members meeting only like a private discussion called by one Board member but not an executive session, can that information be shared with Homeowners?
5. How do we get rid of a Board member who shares executive session information with Homeowners repeatedly when the other Board members are jer friend and cover up for her? Can the Homeowners throw her out of the Board? Can I report her to some agency that overlooks the Board to ensure they are following the laws?
6. What if a Board wants to change a vendor but the Homeowners disagree? Do the homeowners have any power or say to not terminate the contract with the current vendor?

Thanks in advance.

In general, board members have to act in accordance with state laws governing community associations and the community's CC&Rs and bylaws, with state law taking precedence if it contradicts the community's rules.

In particular, state laws will tell you what information homeowners can see, and it's generally pretty broad. That said, the association can charge reasonable fees to produce these documents, and the requests themselves must be reasonable (that is, fishing expeditions are frowned upon).

State law will also tell you whether you're an open meeting state or not, and what sort of information the board must provide to homeowners before and after the meeting. Some states like mine are not open meeting states, which means boards can meet in closed sessions - however, many board members open their meetings anyway.

The only ones who can remove a board member are the homeowners, although the board may remove a director from his officer position and may pass a motion censuring the person for their behavior. Your bylaws should address the steps needed to do this, and the steps need to be followed to the letter, or else the action is invalid. Some states may have an ombudsman-like office that oversees community associations, but many do not.

Homeowners do not have a right to terminate agreements with vendors, although they should communicate their objections in writing to the board if they know information that reflects badly on the vendor (such as a history of bad-faith dealing with other clients). Most associations are corporations, which means that they are governed by their boards of directors. There are a few exceptions in some states - for example, in some the homeowners must approve the annual budget - but for the most part the board has the final say on things.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

If you haven't already done, pull out your documents and READ them, starting with the bylaws. They dictate how the association is to be run, so you may find the answers to some of these questions. There should also be something in there about homeowner rights and responsibilities.

Oh, there may also be state law on HOAs - go to your state's website and start using the search button. If they exist, note the effective date - sometimes it's after you association was established and may not apply.

Now here's one person's response to your questions based on the 10 years I served on my board and what we do - you and your colleagues need to decide what works for your community according to your documents.

1. Generally the homeowners don't need to see the bids of the competing bids -they weren't selected anyway. They do have the right to request and get a copy of the contract from the winning company and perhaps the RFP (request for proposal).

2. Price isn't the only reason you pick contractor S vs. A, B and C. The board is responsible for making decisions in the best interest of the community - that's why they exist. It's ok for some to ask why the board went with a specific contractor and to disagree with that, but as long as the board was transparent in the decision making and the contractor does quality work, that's all residents should care about.

3. This may depend on what was discussed. For example, emails with the association attorney are privileged and can't be shared. The !aw is still evolving on this, so talk to your association attorney in establishing a policy. You need a document disclosure policy anyway that can address a variety of issues so now may be a good time to establish one.

4. Board members shouldn't call meetings whilly-nilly. There are basically two kinds of board meetings - the regular ones featuring an agenda, motions, votes and discussion, which are summarized in meeting minutes to be approved at the next meeting (and made available to homeowners upon request and/or posted in a newsletter or association wdbsite. The other kind are executive sessions which should be rare, because they are held to discuss sensitive issues like lawsuits against the association. Those are closed to homeowners.

If some wants to call a board meeting for another reason, it needs to be announced to homeowners so they can attend. Otherwise, you risk making decide that should have been addressed in a regular meeting. That show rouge board's get started and must be stopped immediately.

5. The board member who's shooting his/her mouth off to homeowners about executive session content is an an example of a topic that's appropriate for an executive session, because these can be held to address board member ciscipline. Have the meeting and censure this board on no uncertain terms. You may want you association attorney to attend this one so everyone gets an education on when executive sessions are held.

You can't throw her/him off the board. the homeowner would have to resign, be recalled by Homeowners or voted out during the next board elections. You could have any confidence vote during the executive session and ask that he or she resign, but be sure you have your case prepared because homeowners will ask why there was a no confidence vote and deserve an answer, along with the board member's response and decide for themselves.

6. Homeowners don't have a right to terminate a contract with a vendor and I answered the other part in #s 1 and 2. If the homeowners have a concern with the vendor's quality of work, they can and should bring that to the Board, who should listen and talk to the vendor about resolving the problem.

Since you're new to the board, I suggest you also check out the community association institute website. It's a national organisation of HOAs and related vendors and has a lot of educational materials on all sorts of HOA issues along with best lractices. You may want to buy a few designed for new board members with little or no ex. They can help you learn what you need to know so you can better serve your community. And you can always come back here to read conversations and learn from them. I hope some of this is useful and good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

What state is this? If you provide the HOA's state, the answers you get will most likely be much better.

SheliaH's and CathyA3's responses are pretty much my own. Here are my specifics.

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM
I am a new Board Member and have a few questions:
1. Do Homeowners have the right to know the bids from vendors for a particular service that the Board is considering?

Nationwide this information is considered proprietary. I advise not sharing it.

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM
2. Do Homeowners have the right to see executed contracts and know what were the prices of the other vendors that the Board did not go with to make sure the Board members went with the best bid?

"Best bid" is subjective. The "best bid" is not always the lowest bid. I would not advise sharing this information unless state law requires it.

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM
3. If communication is shared with Board members in an e-mail, can Homeowners be informed of the content?

If the subject is confidential, with say attorney-client or other privilege applying, no. Directors should not be communicating on substantive topics by email unless an emergency arises. If I knew what state this is, I could say more about "open meeting" requirements, including emailing restrictions.

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM
4. If there is a Board members meeting only like a private discussion called by one Board member but not an executive session, can that information be shared with Homeowners?

State law may require that such a meeting be properly "noticed" (notifications sent to HOA members and open to members. Else it may be an unlawful meeting.

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM
5. How do we get rid of a Board member who shares executive session information with Homeowners repeatedly when the other Board members are her friend and cover up for her?

If a board majority feels as you do, then talk to the HOA's attorney.

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM
Can the Homeowners throw her out of the Board?

Look under "recall" and "removal of directors" and similar in your Bylaws. Else many states have statutes on this.

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM

Can I report her to some agency that overlooks the Board to ensure they are following the laws?

Nationwide, I cannot think of an agency that would handle this. Usually confidentiality requirements are enforced via the courts.

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM
6. What if a Board wants to change a vendor but the Homeowners disagree? Do the homeowners have any power or say to not terminate the contract with the current vendor?

For Bylaws to give such power to the membership would be rare. Every set of bylaws I have seen gives this authority to the board. Statutes tend to back up the board's (and not the membership's) powers to do this. If members do not like something the board does, the remedy is either to recall directors or throw them out of office at the next election.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Sasha, also, if you post the state, please indicate whether this is a condominium or a subdivision of stand-alone homes subject to a HOA. If possible, also give the year the Declaration was recorded.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

What good responses your received, Sasha. With most of them, you must do your own homework and READ your Association's governing documents. Most answers to the questions you ask are easily found in your Bylaws.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 2:08 AM
Hello,

I am a new Board Member and have a few questions:

1. Do Homeowners have the right to know the bids from vendors for a particular service that the Board is considering?
NO

2. Do Homeowners have the right to see executed contracts and know what were the prices of the other vendors that the Board did not go with to make sure the Board members went with the best bid?
NO. Can see executed contracts but not bids for comparison.

3. If communication is shared with Board members in an e-mail, can Homeowners be informed of the content? NO

4. If there is a Board members meeting only like a private discussion called by one Board member but not an executive session, can that information be shared with Homeowners?
If a BOD meeting, then owners are entitled to the Minutes if the meeting. Minutes are not a description of what was discussed. They are a record of anything voted on.

5. How do we get rid of a Board member who shares executive session information with Homeowners repeatedly when the other Board members are her friend and cover up for her?
She would have to be recalled.

5A Can the Homeowners throw her out of the Board?
She would have to be recalled.

5B Can I report her to some agency that overlooks the Board to ensure they are following the laws?
No agency cares.

6. What if a Board wants to change a vendor but the Homeowners disagree? Do the homeowners have any power or say to not terminate the contract with the current vendor?
NO.

Thanks in advance.

SashaE1
Posts: 110

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 04/30/2020 7:38 AM
Sasha, also, if you post the state, please indicate whether this is a condominium or a subdivision of stand-alone homes subject to a HOA. If possible, also give the year the Declaration was recorded.

To Augustin: we are in California and It is a Condominium HOA
To the rest: Reading your replies, thanks in advance for the informing

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

So, Sasha, in CA, unlike many other states, there is only one name for homeowner associations whether condos, townhomes, detached homes, etc. and it's Common Interest Developments (CIDs) So the common everyday expression HOAs refers to all of them A CA HOA law firm has a website called davis-stirling.com, named after the legislation that has statutes about HOAs.

The site is invaluable. Go to it and scroll down the Index and click on any topic that interests to see their advice. They also include the state statute number if appropriate. Scroll, for example, to "Records" to learn what records Owners can inspect wand which ones are off limits.

The director who blabs confidential executive session matters to non-directors can be excluded from many Ex. Sess. portions of ex sass, discussions and votes. The rest of the Board forms an "executive committee" that doesn't include her. The rest of the board also can "censure" her. See above site for more.

Please restate your #4--I have no idea what it means.

SashaE1
Posts: 110

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 04/30/2020 11:41 AM
So, Sasha, in CA, unlike many other states, there is only one name for homeowner associations whether condos, townhomes, detached homes, etc. and it's Common Interest Developments (CIDs) So the common everyday expression HOAs refers to all of them A CA HOA law firm has a website called davis-stirling.com, named after the legislation that has statutes about HOAs.

The site is invaluable. Go to it and scroll down the Index and click on any topic that interests to see their advice. They also include the state statute number if appropriate. Scroll, for example, to "Records" to learn what records Owners can inspect wand which ones are off limits.

The director who blabs confidential executive session matters to non-directors can be excluded from many Ex. Sess. portions of ex sass, discussions and votes. The rest of the Board forms an "executive committee" that doesn't include her. The rest of the board also can "censure" her. See above site for more.

Please restate your #4--I have no idea what it means.

Thanks Kerry. The problem is the majority of the Board support her so I don’t know how to stop her from blabbing her mouth about executive session information to homeowners. She even tells her neighbor friends who complains about them when they send it violations to the MC. As for #4, Board members are discussing changing management companies. The majority agree to go out to bid on a new management company. However the minority of us have concerns as to why they want this change especially since the homeowners are very happy with this MC. Can I let the homeowners know the HOA wants to go out to bid on our management company? They have the right to know.

SashaE1
Posts: 110

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 04/30/2020 7:24 AM
If you haven't already done, pull out your documents and READ them, starting with the bylaws. They dictate how the association is to be run, so you may find the answers to some of these questions. There should also be something in there about homeowner rights and responsibilities.

Oh, there may also be state law on HOAs - go to your state's website and start using the search button. If they exist, note the effective date - sometimes it's after you association was established and may not apply.

Now here's one person's response to your questions based on the 10 years I served on my board and what we do - you and your colleagues need to decide what works for your community according to your documents.

1. Generally the homeowners don't need to see the bids of the competing bids -they weren't selected anyway. They do have the right to request and get a copy of the contract from the winning company and perhaps the RFP (request for proposal).

2. Price isn't the only reason you pick contractor S vs. A, B and C. The board is responsible for making decisions in the best interest of the community - that's why they exist. It's ok for some to ask why the board went with a specific contractor and to disagree with that, but as long as the board was transparent in the decision making and the contractor does quality work, that's all residents should care about.

3. This may depend on what was discussed. For example, emails with the association attorney are privileged and can't be shared. The !aw is still evolving on this, so talk to your association attorney in establishing a policy. You need a document disclosure policy anyway that can address a variety of issues so now may be a good time to establish one.

4. Board members shouldn't call meetings whilly-nilly. There are basically two kinds of board meetings - the regular ones featuring an agenda, motions, votes and discussion, which are summarized in meeting minutes to be approved at the next meeting (and made available to homeowners upon request and/or posted in a newsletter or association wdbsite. The other kind are executive sessions which should be rare, because they are held to discuss sensitive issues like lawsuits against the association. Those are closed to homeowners.

If some wants to call a board meeting for another reason, it needs to be announced to homeowners so they can attend. Otherwise, you risk making decide that should have been addressed in a regular meeting. That show rouge board's get started and must be stopped immediately.

5. The board member who's shooting his/her mouth off to homeowners about executive session content is an an example of a topic that's appropriate for an executive session, because these can be held to address board member ciscipline. Have the meeting and censure this board on no uncertain terms. You may want you association attorney to attend this one so everyone gets an education on when executive sessions are held.

You can't throw her/him off the board. the homeowner would have to resign, be recalled by Homeowners or voted out during the next board elections. You could have any confidence vote during the executive session and ask that he or she resign, but be sure you have your case prepared because homeowners will ask why there was a no confidence vote and deserve an answer, along with the board member's response and decide for themselves.

6. Homeowners don't have a right to terminate a contract with a vendor and I answered the other part in #s 1 and 2. If the homeowners have a concern with the vendor's quality of work, they can and should bring that to the Board, who should listen and talk to the vendor about resolving the problem.

Since you're new to the board, I suggest you also check out the community association institute website. It's a national organisation of HOAs and related vendors and has a lot of educational materials on all sorts of HOA issues along with best lractices. You may want to buy a few designed for new board members with little or no ex. They can help you learn what you need to know so you can better serve your community. And you can always come back here to read conversations and learn from them. I hope some of this is useful and good luck!

Sheila: Thank you so much! This is great and detailed information, I have a few follow up questions.
1. This Board member said it’s a meeting of Board members ONLY. They don’t want the homeowners involved at this meeting. I’m concerned and I think homeowners need to be aware of this meeting and the contents. Can homeowners attend too? Or can this Board member make this an executive session meeting to exclude homeowners from knowing? They want to make a drastic change of vendors. The homeowners are very happy with this vendor. This is why I think the homeowners should know. The majority of the Board agreed to having this Board members ONLY discussion and not notify the homeowners which is about going out to bid on a large contract the HOA has.

2. How do i get the HOA attorney to address this Board member sharing executive session information so it stops when the majority of the Board give it a blind eye since they are her friends?

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Sure ... but, nothing will matter unless you have the support to recall the board members voting in manner you and other might dislike.

SashaE1
Posts: 110

Posted:

Can Board members choose to put a discussion and vote to change a major HOA vendor in an executive session to exclude homeowners?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 10:14 PM
Can Board members choose to put a discussion and vote to change a major HOA vendor in an executive session to exclude homeowners?

Very unlikely, and why would you want to hide something like this? There are usually strict limits on what can be discussed in executive session - for instance, legal actions and contracts under negotiation, and in some states delinquencies and collections.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 04/30/2020 7:36 AM
What state is this? If you provide the HOA's state, the answers you get will most likely be much better.

SheliaH's and CathyA3's responses are pretty much my own. Here are my specifics.

Nationwide this information is considered proprietary. I advise not sharing it.

br>
In Florida bids received by both condos and HOAs are considered official records, must be retained (for a year in an HOA and longer for a condo) and must be made available to owners. OP is in California, so this information is moot, however describing it as "nationwide proprietary" isn't quite correct.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Bids do not need to be shared with Owners in CA.

It sounds like your board wants to interview three MCs (Mgt. companies). Interviewing them and discussing the plusses and minuses of each can be in executive session in CA. IThe topic is "contract in formation. Please, please go to the site I gave you above and look up executive session!!

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

In answer to your second set of questions:

1 - this board member is a dingbat - actually the rest of the board, except you, don't seem to have it together either. Or they lack the stones to stand up to this board member, which is just as bad, because everyone on the board has one vote and no one person is a dictator. Since homeowners don't have the final say as to whom the board selects as a vendor, there's no reason to ban them from a meeting where vendor selection is discussed. The main question regarding vendors is (1) do they provide quality work and (2) do they charge a competitive rate (the most or least expensive isn't always the best and you DO get what you pay for.

Why do I get the feeling this board member made a promise to whatever vendor he/she really wanted and is now in hot water because the vendor didn't get the contract? That would be an interesting thing to ask in an open board meeting. Whether you do that or not, you need to push hard on not making this an executive session because this isn't justified. It would be different if legal action of some type was involved.

You can't open or close board meetings to homeowners on a whim - even if you go in executive session for a legitimate reason, homeowners have a right to know in advance one is being held before or after the regular meeting - you can list a generic reason such as "to discuss board member conduct." There should be a motion made to hold said meeting, along with a second and vote. I suspect the others don't want the homeowners to hear the ensuing discussion because it's easier to hide and do things in secret. You must resist this as hard as you can.

Time to add some spice to the next open board meeting - perhaps you might ask this board member for a SPECIFIC reason or reasons the association should change course. If the meeting was held, ask why the board (the rest of them) didn't consider taking this question before the homeowners to see if there were problems with the vendor they weren't aware of? Let them explain in front of the homeowners why they decided to terminate the contract of someone everyone liked. Don't forget your popcorn.

Oh, and don't forget to ask if anyone took a look at the contract for language making the association responsible for early termination without cause. It would be really exciting if you already read that part and had an estimate of how much those costs were - announce that to the homeowners, and then ask the board are they really willing to use association funds towards cancellation? If not, they need to take several seats (as the young folks say) and keep quiet unless and until someone has something to say that actually makes sense this time.

2. I believe I answered this already - you could invite the attorney to attend, as you'd like him/her to educate the board on executive sessions, when they're appropriate and why board members shouldn't disclose those discussions to their friends. Hopefully, the attorney will do it at no charge, otherwise, you'll have to get the board to vote on whether to invite the attorney to the meeting and pay the ensuing bill. You'll need to be as persuasive as you can, but you need to recognize you may be outvoted. You may looked upon as the outcast, but sometimes that's the only one telling the truth. You need to decide if you're willing to stick your neck out and take on the consequences to wherever they lead.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

SashaE1
Posts: 110

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 05/01/2020 5:29 AM

Posted By SashaE1 on 04/30/2020 10:14 PM
Can Board members choose to put a discussion and vote to change a major HOA vendor in an executive session to exclude homeowners?

thank you Cathy. I have been reading a lot and learning making sure I am understanding correctly. I don’t want to meet like this or hide this but the other Board members meet like this and this is why I am asking questions.

SashaE1
Posts: 110

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 05/01/2020 1:17 PM
Bids do not need to be shared with Owners in CA.

It sounds like your board wants to interview three MCs (Mgt. companies). Interviewing them and discussing the plusses and minuses of each can be in executive session in CA. IThe topic is "contract in formation. Please, please go to the site I gave you above and look up executive session!!

the Board wants to discuss replacing them but do not want the homeowners involved or knowing they will do this until after the replacement was made then they will announce to the homeowners there is a new MC.

SashaE1
Posts: 110

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 05/01/2020 2:06 PM
In answer to your second set of questions:

1 - this board member is a dingbat - actually the rest of the board, except you, don't seem to have it together either. Or they lack the stones to stand up to this board member, which is just as bad, because everyone on the board has one vote and no one person is a dictator. Since homeowners don't have the final say as to whom the board selects as a vendor, there's no reason to ban them from a meeting where vendor selection is discussed. The main question regarding vendors is (1) do they provide quality work and (2) do they charge a competitive rate (the most or least expensive isn't always the best and you DO get what you pay for.

Why do I get the feeling this board member made a promise to whatever vendor he/she really wanted and is now in hot water because the vendor didn't get the contract? That would be an interesting thing to ask in an open board meeting. Whether you do that or not, you need to push hard on not making this an executive session because this isn't justified. It would be different if legal action of some type was involved.

You can't open or close board meetings to homeowners on a whim - even if you go in executive session for a legitimate reason, homeowners have a right to know in advance one is being held before or after the regular meeting - you can list a generic reason such as "to discuss board member conduct." There should be a motion made to hold said meeting, along with a second and vote. I suspect the others don't want the homeowners to hear the ensuing discussion because it's easier to hide and do things in secret. You must resist this as hard as you can.

Time to add some spice to the next open board meeting - perhaps you might ask this board member for a SPECIFIC reason or reasons the association should change course. If the meeting was held, ask why the board (the rest of them) didn't consider taking this question before the homeowners to see if there were problems with the vendor they weren't aware of? Let them explain in front of the homeowners why they decided to terminate the contract of someone everyone liked. Don't forget your popcorn.

Oh, and don't forget to ask if anyone took a look at the contract for language making the association responsible for early termination without cause. It would be really exciting if you already read that part and had an estimate of how much those costs were - announce that to the homeowners, and then ask the board are they really willing to use association funds towards cancellation? If not, they need to take several seats (as the young folks say) and keep quiet unless and until someone has something to say that actually makes sense this time.

2. I believe I answered this already - you could invite the attorney to attend, as you'd like him/her to educate the board on executive sessions, when they're appropriate and why board members shouldn't disclose those discussions to their friends. Hopefully, the attorney will do it at no charge, otherwise, you'll have to get the board to vote on whether to invite the attorney to the meeting and pay the ensuing bill. You'll need to be as persuasive as you can, but you need to recognize you may be outvoted. You may looked upon as the outcast, but sometimes that's the only one telling the truth. You need to decide if you're willing to stick your neck out and take on the consequences to wherever they lead.

Sheila, THANK YOU. I agree. They don’t want the homeowners to know they want to change this vendor until the change is done then they plan to tell the homeowners: Surprise, new vendor, new contract, which I think is ludicrous. I will definitely ask those questions during an open meeting. However, I thought in order to discuss things in an open meeting, it needed to be an agenda item. I also thought the majority of the Board needs to agree to put something in the open meeting agenda, did I understand incorrectly? Can I request these things to be added to the agenda, these email discussions between meetings? I think the homeowners need to know this information.

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