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GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
In mid-March the new Secretary prepared the Draft Minutes of the February board meeting to distribute to the homeowners. There are 65 homeowners who have elected to receive copies of the draft monthly board meeting minutes via email. Additionally, the Secretary prints a few copies which are left in a box in the clubhouse for owners without email.

Along with the draft minutes from February, the board also wanted the secretary to distribute an information sheet regarding our new insurance policies slated to go into effect in May. When sending the emails, the Secretary attached the full Financial Statements from March instead of the insurance info.

Normally the automatic distribution for the full Financials is limited to the board and the members of the Finance Committee, which is about 8 people altogether. It's not really a problem that these went out to everyone since every howmeowner has a right to see it, if they ask (almost no one ever asks).

The potential problem some are squawking about is that detailed bank statements are included with the Financial. Every bank, every account number, every balance. This totals 6 banks, the operating account, and 5 reserve accounts that have about a million dollars between them.

Is this anything that should unduly worry anyone? It seems absurd that people who have no inkling of information security are all of a sudden "experts" when it comes to 75 copies of bank account information floating around in the wild. On the other hand, I see their point. I see this stuff every month when I review the financial reports and don't give it a second thought. But in "the wrong hands" this information might pose some risk. Has a widespread release raised the amount of risk to an unacceptable level?

I don't think so, but some homeowners are agitating for the board to get the account numbers changed. This seemingly simple change could entail a lot of work, or at least a lot of time. The board is not inclined to do that. The authorized signers on the accounts haven't changed and no online passwords have been revealed.

What do others think? I'm 50-50 on whether or not the bank account numbers should be changed. On the one hand I'd rather be safe than sorry, but on the other it might be a time-consuming effort for very little reduction in risk.

As for the board and the Secretary, the response has been, "Oops! Sorry! Won't happen again!"
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
George's Law of Large Numbers rules.

At a $1,000,000 - I would change every account number!

At $1,000 - I would not change any account number.

Somewhere in between - have to talk to other folks to see what they think.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Oh boy, thanks George. Exactly what I didn't want to hear I remain very interested in what others have to say.

I do like George's Law of Large Numbers though
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I understand the concern about the account numbers being out there because there's been so much identity theft and embezzlement of HOA funds (your homeowners are probably more familiar with the former than the latter). It would probably take a bit of doing to use a business account number to steal, which is why the association and its banks should already have procedures and protocols in place to help prevent that.

If the bank information didn't include an individual homeowner's account, I don't see a reason for changing the numbers. However, it wouldn't hurt for the BOARD members to have a chat with the bank to determine how much a risk may have been created. If they recommend changing the numbers, go ahead and do it. While you're at it, go ahead and review your protocols to see if anything else should be changed or added - as you say, better safe than sorry.

You can then summarize your meeting with the bank, assuring everyone that every precaution has been taken to protect the association's resources - including some training of the new secretary - so this doesn't happen again. And try to do a little better than "whoops, my bad" - it may be people are up in arms because they don't think the board is taking this seriously enough.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with what Sheila said. It's very difficult to get access to business accounts even if you're an official signer or whatnot. But it's a good idea to talk to your bank and see what they say - they'd likely have a better sense of how much risk you're at.

And offhand, what sort of insurance do you carry? We're required to carry enough to cover, at minimum, the amount we have in the bank plus the annual budget.

That said, if your HOA were my personal business, I'd change the account numbers out of an abundance of caution.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I think it's a good idea to have at least a chat with the banks' representatives and see what they say. I'll suggest that.

As for insurance, I was just looking at that the other day. We have Crime Insurance for $1.2 million but the actual policy is somewhat difficult to understand. For instance and example, Section A says (paraphrasing) "The following is covered .... x, y and z." Later on, Section X lists "Exclusions" that seems to exclude everything, and ends with, "... except as provided in Section A."

It's very convoluted which is typical of most insurance policies I've seen here. Section A refers to Section X which refers to Section R which refers back to Section A, and so on and so forth. Very hard to follow. I'll look at it again tonight. I don't know if there's an exclusion for shooting yourself in the foot. There is something about computers and cyber crime but I have to double-check that.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Geno

Do chat with the bank's rep. They might be able to "freeze" withdrawals from the account or at least set up a more secure method for withdrawals. I assume the accounts have "signers" that can make withdrawals thus this offers some protection.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I am aware that writing a check to someone discloses one's account number. The net says time and again that disclosing account numbers is safe.

I am also aware that one can set up an automatic withdrawal from one's bank account to pay one's federal taxes. Would a thief who owed thousands to the IRS succeed? I do not know. I am seeing reports of theft of people's stimulus checks using account numbers and I suppose the "get my payment" portal at the irs.gov site.

To me, checking in with the bank and the HOA insurer makes the most sense for now. I hope you will update the forum with their response.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Geno

You're worried that someone might drain the association's account because they were sent bank statements. If you look at the topic for 1st dregree misdemeanor, the association there is requesting SS#'s and actual bank statement, so I guess each for themselves.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Actually, the worry, such as it were, is that the people who were sent the statements would further spread the information around inadvertently. There are at least 3 people on the email distribution list whose email accounts have been compromised (I'm pretty sure 72-year-old Mrs. Smith didn't actually send me email last week advertising penis pills).

Direct access to the bank accounts is one possibility, albeit unlikely. Another is just the knowledge that the HOA has a million dollars in the bank(s) could put a target on our backs if the wrong people came into possession of it. It's not something keeping me awake at night, but around here, anything is possible.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
The treasurer should get into online banking and set up alerts to be text messaged to a cell phone, so the accounts can be monitored in real time (or via email whenever email gets checked). For example, an alert sent for any transaction over $1 on the reserve account will alert you activity on that account. Also a low balance alert. You have a lot of control over what alert, when.

Actually, all treasurers should set up alerts.

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