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Fined but not good at understanding State Codes

Started by DavidC42 ā€¢ 18 replies ā€¢ 585 views

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DavidC42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Hate to trouble the forum but asking for individual understanding of the below. Does it mean fines had to be voted on? And if there were not voted on what should I do?

Ā§31E-6-603. Imposition of fines and penalties; levy of dues and assessments.
(a) A corporation may impose fines or penalties on members if provided in bylaws duly adopted by a two-thirds vote of members entitled to vote and, if the fine or penalty applies to members not entitled to vote, by a two-thirds vote as a class of the members not otherwise entitled to vote. The fine or penalty may not exceed the higher of the: (1) Annual dues or assessment; or (2) initiation fee, if any.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Is this MD's corporation code? Or is the citation from your Bylaws, David? The wording seems odd for a homeowners association.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Typed "Maryland HOA Fines" into Google ...

https://www.peoples-law.org/disagreements-your-condo-or-homeowners-association-maryland
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I interpret this as saying if the members voted to assess fines, the corporation can assess fines, but as Kerri said you need to start by reading your documents. The bylaws generally dictate how the association is run, while the CCRs dictate how the common areas are to be used. One or the other may state fines can be assessed.

If there's nothing specific in the documents, they may say the board of directors can enact additional rules to flash out the documents as long as they don't try o supersede them or contradict local or state law. Even then the HOA law may allow the documents to be stricter than state law, depending on what's being addressed. The state law may only apply to HOW's that were established after a specific date.

Since you can't take part of a law and say it applies in your situation,let's unpack it. Is your HOA trying to find you for a rules violation? If so, we're you given a right to appeal? Did you appeal? Did you lose? We must also ask if you did, in fact, violate the rule and if that's true, why didn't you did it? We're you aware there was a dining schedule?
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidC42 on 04/25/2020 12:00 PM
Hate to trouble the forum but asking for individual understanding of the below. Does it mean fines had to be voted on? And if there were not voted on what should I do?

Ā§31E-6-603. Imposition of fines and penalties; levy of dues and assessments.
(a) A corporation may impose fines or penalties on members if provided in bylaws duly adopted by a two-thirds vote of members entitled to vote and, if the fine or penalty applies to members not entitled to vote, by a two-thirds vote as a class of the members not otherwise entitled to vote. The fine or penalty may not exceed the higher of the: (1) Annual dues or assessment; or (2) initiation fee, if any.
DavidC42, the above statute section is from the West Virginia Nonprofit Corporation statute. Is your HOA or condo in West Virginia? Is your HOA or condo a corporation? If your answer is yes to both questions, then chances are the "vote" to adopt the bylaws happened when the developer owned all the lots. If the Bylaws say fines may be imposed, then I think you are stuck with paying the fine pursuant to 31E-6-603.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Good catch, Augie.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
In this same section is the following:

(c) For purposes of this section, the corporation's initial bylaws adopted by: (1) The incorporators; or (2) the board of directors is deemed to have been adopted by all the members entitled to vote thereon, if any.

More details at https://law.justia.com/codes/west-virginia/2005/31e/wvc31e-6-603.html

Funny but the following West Virginia HOA soap opera came up when I was searching:

https://www.smore.com/50ka9-woody

The site's authors appear to feel fines are not allowed?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
This poor gentleman is indeed suing on the claim that fines are unlawful at this WV HOA:
https://youtu.be/FGF2W8FALx0
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Hmmmm ...

So, DavidC, why register as Maryland?

What are the circumstances of the fines? Are you in violation of your governing documents?
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Listened to the video ... didnā€™t watch except bits and pieces since it is just panning a phone back and forth across the front of a courthouse.

Paraphrasing ... ā€œEven if youā€™re guilty you should file suit here ...ā€

We only have part of the story, but this seems pretty nutty stuff.

Perhaps the OP can help us understand what is going on, so that we may all learn from it?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
To clarify, I do not know whether the dispute in West Virginia on the video I linked has anything to do with the first post in this thread. For all I know DavidC42 is a Maryland-er who does not know how to look up statutes. On the other hand, the HOA discussed in the video I linked has come up before here. Lots of sturm-und-drang. Maybe the video's author has people at his HOA looking up whether they can file a suit and win, using the statute (incompletely) quoted in the first post in this thread? If so, not a chance. Do not do what the author of this video did. You will be out $200 (maybe a lot more) and you will anger the judge.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Just finished Battle for Stalingrad, and My 25 Years in Provence ...I need some entertainment.

This thread, assuming the OP returns, can probably provide.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
This is the state code stating that the BYLAWS authorizing fines have to be voted on and passed by 2/3 majority, not the fines. So, if the bylaws authorizing the fines were properly passed by 2/3 majority, the corporation can impose fines. They do not have to have a vote to impose a fine.

How the fines are imposed should be in the bylaws.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Does this mean the developerā€™s bylaws, passed to the new association, can be presumed to reflect that 2/3 vote?
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidC42 on 04/25/2020 12:00 PM
Hate to trouble the forum but asking for individual understanding of the below. Does it mean fines had to be voted on? And if there were not voted on what should I do?

Ā§31E-6-603. Imposition of fines and penalties; levy of dues and assessments.
(a) A corporation may impose fines or penalties on members if provided in bylaws duly adopted by a two-thirds vote of members entitled to vote and, if the fine or penalty applies to members not entitled to vote, by a two-thirds vote as a class of the members not otherwise entitled to vote. The fine or penalty may not exceed the higher of the: (1) Annual dues or assessment; or (2) initiation fee, if any.


SheilaH is right.

The fines can be imposed only if bylaws were approved by 2/3 of members and if the bylaws also contain provisions allowing the fines.

So check the bylaws, be sure that the bylaws were approved by 2/3 of members and then make sure that the fines were imposed in strict compliance with the bylaws.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 04/25/2020 8:50 PM
Does this mean the developerā€™s bylaws, passed to the new association, can be presumed to reflect that 2/3 vote?

I think you would have to assume that. That is how new community associations start operating - and courts have generally upheld the notion that purchasing a home in such a community is the buyer's consent to be governed by the CC&Rs and bylaws, which is why these provisions are enforceable.

The only things homeowners vote on are amendments to their governing documents, the election of board members, and (in some states) items that must be approved at the annual meeting such as the yearly budget.Ā If the governing docs allow fines for violations, then it's up to the board - not the homeowners - to develop a fining schedule that complies with that provision.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Well, it looks like the OP hasnā€™t responded.

Iā€™ll have to start a new book, after all.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
OP packed up his tent and left. Post Count: 0
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Darn!

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