HOA Board member is convinced felon and.....

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

We have a member of our HOA board who is a convicted felon. This is something discovered after he was elected. It was quite a big crime where he owed the govt 60 mil. Spent about 3 years in jail. Fast forward and he is on the board and we do contend he is legally allowed to be there. Our HOA lawyer is saying in order to do our fiduciary duty, we should be telling the community about the mans conviction. Her opinion is that if he were to commit a crime against the community, we could be libel since we didn’t inform the neighborhood. I know this man has retained a lawyer and will likely sue if we move forward. Any advice? Is our lawyer correct? Has anyone been in this position? Since we live in Georgia we know he legally has the right to serve on the board.

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

I would never vote him into a position where he had the ability to easily commit a crime, such as treasurer or president but I personally don't agree with your attorney about the need to notify the community. However, I would either taking her advice or get a second legal opinion.

I'm not sure what the board member would sue for if you went forward. Aren't criminal records public in Georgia as they are in most states? As long as you are sure of the conviction you should be able to post it anywhere. I would make sure you have an official copy of the conviction, though.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Sarah,

I agree with Ben. Let the individual serve but, to err on caution and remove any concerns (real or perceived), do not place them in a position that they have access to HOA funds.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Why is it the need to know or spread the convicted felon status? Sounds more like a reason to wag one's tongue than to see what this person is. Convicted and time served means they can go back into society again.

What exact damage could they do? They just have voting powers. Most likely not signing abilities for checks. Why should their opinion not matter if they got voted in by others they are to represent?

I think this is just something to have to talk about. It's not what this person has to offer...

Former HOA President

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

According to our HOA Lawyer, if this person / felon (lets call him Fred) does commit an HOA-related crime and the HOA Board didnt alert the neighborhood, the neighborhood could sue us for not telling them. No one knows he is a felon and "Fred" is a creep in my opinion. Im just wondering if anyone had a similar situation and what the outcome was.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Also....the lawyer's suggestion isnt to kick him off the board, but to tell the neighborhood of his previous conviction.

SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814

Posted:

Tell the neighborhood about his conviction?!

Well, there’s a lawsuit, for sure.

How did he get on the board? If he was not eligible according to state law , then the board should have not even allowed his nomination.

Sounds personal on your part, to me.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Sue - its the HOA LAWYER who is telling the board to do this...this had nothing to do with ME. What could he sue for?

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

SarahK3, yes, a group of neighbors and I were in this position. It was a HOA treasurer-director who had been convicted of a financial crime (stealing money from one account and putting it into his own). A few neighbors and I felt as your attorney felt: Our failure to disclose would be a breach of fiduciary duty. We spoke to the man. We spoke to the Board. Many months went by. We did inform the membership. Plenty of people hated us. A number of people said they appreciated being informed. People here at hoatalk felt the crime was old enough that it should not be disclosed.

I continue to feel, in situations like this, 'one is damned if one does and damned if one does not.' I feel transparency is always the better choice.

I understand a felon's service on a board or as an officer may affect bonding and insurance. Some HOA/Condo declarations are strict about bonding when it comes to those who work with HOA money.

I agree with your HOA's attorney that the stakes are high here, on a few levels. I recommend the board have the HOA attorney write a letter to the man, explaining that the HOA feels the man needs to disclose this information, and speaking of bonding and insurance concerns. The man will then likely send it to his attorney. Go from there.

Quote:

Posted By SueW6 on 04/21/2020 5:31 AM
Tell the neighborhood about his conviction?! Well, there’s a lawsuit, for sure.

Nonsense. This man's conviction is public record. Disclosing his conviction violates no law. Florida legislators, for one, felt and feel so strongly about convicted felons serving on boards that Florida statutes place restriction on their being able to serve: At least five years must have passed since the convicted felon's civil rights were restored.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 4:59 AM
According to our HOA lawyer, if this person / felon (lets call him Fred) does commit an HOA-related crime and the HOA Board did not alert the neighborhood, the neighborhood could sue us for not telling them.

I agree that, where a board knows there is a high risk of xyz (that could ultimately cost the HOA a good deal of money), the board has a duty of taking action to prevent xyz. Case law is clear about the potential liability. Of course, whether the risk of xyz is high or not is subjective. Here I think the risk is high enough that the board has a duty to pursue disclosure of the felony, so that the membership can make an informed choice when it votes.

PaulJ6
Posts: 990

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 5:02 AM
Also....the lawyer's suggestion isnt to kick him off the board, but to tell the neighborhood of his previous conviction.

Don't single him out. Have the board require that ALL directors disclose basic facts about prior criminal convictions:

1. Date
2. Time served
3. Found guilty of what

Then circulate just these basic, verifiable facts about ALL directors to the community.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulJ6 on 04/21/2020 8:20 AM
Have the board require that ALL directors disclose basic facts about prior criminal convictions:

With the exception of possibly Florida, I doubt any Declaration or statute gives a HOA Board the power to require such a disclosure.

SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814

Posted:

The people who put him there ( on the board) are the only ones that can remove him.

This was white collar crime, right? The man committed a crime and apparently paid the price ( jail or fine). He has no direct power over finances, so your accusations ( of the unknown) border on defamation of character. If he loses this “job” because you attacked his character, that could be a problem for the board, legally.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SueW6 on 04/21/2020 8:40 AM
The people who put him there ( on the board) are the only ones that can remove him.

You missed the part where the OP wrote her only interest was to get the information out to the membership, per the HOA attorney's advice. Why aren't you reading what she posted?

Quote:

Posted By SueW6 on 04/21/2020 8:40 AM
The man committed a crime and apparently paid the price ( jail or fine). He has no direct power over finances, so your accusations (of the unknown) border on defamation of character.

If a fact is disclosed, it is not defamation. Read.

Why is it you think the accusations are "unknown"? Do you realize convictions are public record?

Why are you making unproven accusations of the OP? By your standards, you are defaming her.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I would think having a convicted felon on the Board might have a bearing on your HOA's (corporation) insurability.

If the conviction is open source, then the notice of the conviction - without comment - is probably not a lawsuit issue - but, I am no an attorney.

The Board should ask the question of the insurance company.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SueW6 on 04/21/2020 8:40 AM
If he loses this “job” because you attacked his character, that could be a problem for the board, legally.

To be kept in mind when anyone argues that convicted felons have rights: Those rights are limited. For example, employers have an absolute, bullet-proof legal right to ask a job applicant whether he or she has had any convictions. If the applicant lies and is subsequently hired, the employer, upon learning of the conviction, has the legal right to instantly terminate the person.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

SueW6,
I think you have the angle that needs to be addressed here.

In the 2 States that I have run for a Board seat Ca. and Tx. both had on the candidate sheet have you ever been convicted of a Felony. If he failed to disclose to the community he should be removed for fraud. He would have been in eligible in my opinion.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Sue this man was convicted (plead guilty) of stealing around 60 million dollars. He created fake documents to secure loans on hotels for more then they were worth. The board didnt put him on the board, he ran and won. No one knew he was a felon though.

We are not accusing - he did this crime. Defamation of character occurs when someone makes a false statement about you that causes you some type of harm. The statement must be published (meaning some third party must have heard it), false, and it must result in harm, usually to the reputation.

This isnt false.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Good idea!!

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

There IS such a thing as redemption - some of you might not believe it, but there are occasions where people do something heinous, go to jail and then have a 180-degree turn in their behavior. After all, isn't our justice system supposed to be about rehabilitation?

Now having said that, it's interesting that no one knew of this factoid - if he owed (owes?) the government $60 million, I would think that made the news at some point. It's true he probably has a right to serve on the board, but I'm concerned about his lack of candor. He had to know this would come out at some point and if you aren't upfront about something like this, what else are you hiding and how will you deal with confidential association matters like delinquencies?

This warrants an executive session where I'd ask this man point-blank about his past and see what he has to say. Tough questions need to be asked about what he did and what he's done since then to turn his life around and there needs to be a discussion as to how he will conduct himself going forward. If the rest of the board is concerned about his past, it would be appropriate to ask him to step down (he can say it's for personal reasons to save face). Otherwise, I don't think you can compel him to disclose this to the homeowners and because of privacy issues, I'm not sure the board can disclose this either.

As far as legal action against the board goes, I don't see how the board should be held responsible for this man being on the board - he was elected, not appointed, so that's on the homeowners. It could be argued that if the board found out about this conviction, any homeowner would have been able to do the same thing and didn't.

If the man stays, make it clear that for now he WILL NOT be appointed to any officer position or put in charge of an advisory committee. He has a trust issue that time and his behavior will have to take care of. For the future, talk to your attorney about drafting an amendment to the CCRs that would prohibit convicted felons from serving on the board. To be fair to people who really have turned their lives around, it may be helpful to say you can't serve if the conviction occurred within the last five-seven years.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 04/21/2020 9:47 AM
There IS such a thing as redemption - some of you might not believe it, but there are occasions where people do something heinous, go to jail and then have a 180-degree turn in their behavior. After all, isn't our justice system supposed to be about rehabilitation?

When one is serving on a corporate board, then I think that one's judgments have to be somewhat different from the above, due to bearing partial responsibility for the safety of property and life; insurers being properly informed of risks; bonding; et cetera.

Else unless the Bylaws or a statute explicitly disallows recent felons from serving on the board, case law says a Board cannot just make up the qualifications for board service.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Sheila,
While I totally agree with you about Redemption I am also aware that many times you have the opposite issue which is Repeat Offenders.

I view this as part of my Fiduciary Duty to make sure HOPA funds are protected from All types of abuse. This is just another chance for that to happen. This is especially important if other who may have been on the same ballot were not selected during this election.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Does your D&O include insuring felons?

Does your liability insurance have provisions for Board members who are felons?

What happens when the Board decides to make him Treasurer? Would your D&O or liability cover?

TimM11
Posts: 354

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 04/21/2020 9:06 AM

Unless they're in a "ban the box" state, in which they absolutely cannot until after an interview or when a job offer is extended, unless it's for a position where state law specifically allows it.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I second what George said about checking with your HOA's insurance agent about this.

I also second comments that disclosing factual information is not defamatory. According to what I've read about defamation, it is not illegal to disclose facts, no matter how embarrassing those facts may be to someone. And white color crime is exactly the sort of things you need to worry about if you're a board member.

I'd be less concerned if he'd swiped a few bottles of booze from a state liquor store or hot wired a car or two during his misspent youth - this was not a small crime the guy committed, and presumably he was an adult when he did so. Yes, he may have seen the error of his ways, but I feel that board members should be held to higher standards. I understand why be may not want to announce this to world at large, but it doesn't speak well of his transparency, or of any desire to keep his head down and his nose clean.

[ASIDE: This issue has an interesting link with yesterday's discussion about codes of ethics. One of a board member's duties is a duty of loyalty. In other words, you should not go around bad-mouthing other board members or undermining their decisions. Which is fine if you're dealing with a simple difference of opinion. But what happens in a case like this, when you know something about another board member that calls into question that person's fitness for the job? In my opinion, you have an obligation to take steps to prevent that person from harming the association, and this supersedes any duty of loyalty to the person as a fellow board member. If you'd signed a code of conduct, you'd find yourself in a position where you have no good options.}

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimM11 on 04/21/2020 10:15 AM
Unless they're in a "ban the box" state, in which they absolutely cannot until after an interview or when a job offer is extended, unless it's for a position where state law specifically allows it.

Thank you for the correction. More on this at https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/are-states-complying-ban-box-laws/601240/ and other sites.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

His redemption, to me, is not the point. The point is the HOA Lawyer feels we can't just ignore that he is a felon (which was our plan).

We have asked "Fred" if what we found is true (we know it is). He directed us to his attoreny who will not confirm or deny. Again, we know its him.

We dont plan to make him tell homeowners, our lawyer feels the board should tell homeowners.

He is currently the Secretary of the Board.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

We are not trying to disqialify him from serving on the board. We are simply considering alerting the homeowners of his past...per lawyers advisement.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

VERY good questions....I will ask.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 10:48 AM
We have asked "Fred" if what we found is true (we know it is). He directed us to his attorney who will not confirm or deny.

[chuckle] Thanks for the entertainment.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 04/21/2020 11:01 AM

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 10:48 AM
We have asked "Fred" if what we found is true (we know it is). He directed us to his attorney who will not confirm or deny.

[chuckle] Thanks for the entertainment.

:-)

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 04/21/2020 11:01 AM

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 10:48 AM
We have asked "Fred" if what we found is true (we know it is). He directed us to his attorney who will not confirm or deny.

[chuckle] Thanks for the entertainment.

Well, that's another strike in my book. A truthful person would respond yes - he or she u but stutter and stammer at first, but a few comments about the crime and conviction should demonstrate to him or her there's no reason to dance around the truth any longer.

This is a tough situation and I would urge the man to step down and tell him point blank that the rest of you don't trust him and he could be putting the association at risk if he does something and the association loses its D & O coverage.

Some have suggested consulting your master insurance, and that's probably your next step. During the executive session I suppose you could take a no confidence vote against him and ask him to resign. But if he refuses, you're back to where you started.

At this point you may have to quietly urge someone to run against him for the next election and do what you can to help the candidate win. I don't know how you'd disclose the conviction, although it there's a newspaper article about this and people see it, that would hurt a libel claim because I believe truth is a valid defense. And then he'd have to explain why he didn't disclose this when he was running.

Let us know how this ends - my hope is the man will wake up and quietly resign. I fear it will get out sooner or later and the fallout won't be pretty.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

If it is legal for him to serve, then get over it. To he!! with what your lawyer says.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/21/2020 11:53 AM
If it is legal for him to serve, then get over it. To he!! with what your lawyer says.

Why would I ignore what my lawyer says? Why would I not ignore my fudiciary duty?

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 04/21/2020 11:48 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 04/21/2020 11:01 AM

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 10:48 AM
We have asked "Fred" if what we found is true (we know it is). He directed us to his attorney who will not confirm or deny.

[chuckle] Thanks for the entertainment.

Well, that's another strike in my book. A truthful person would respond yes - he or she u but stutter and stammer at first, but a few comments about the crime and conviction should demonstrate to him or her there's no reason to dance around the truth any longer.

This is a tough situation and I would urge the man to step down and tell him point blank that the rest of you don't trust him and he could be putting the association at risk if he does something and the association loses its D & O coverage.

Some have suggested consulting your master insurance, and that's probably your next step. During the executive session I suppose you could take a no confidence vote against him and ask him to resign. But if he refuses, you're back to where you started.

At this point you may have to quietly urge someone to run against him for the next election and do what you can to help the candidate win. I don't know how you'd disclose the conviction, although it there's a newspaper article about this and people see it, that would hurt a libel claim because I believe truth is a valid defense. And then he'd have to explain why he didn't disclose this when he was running.

Let us know how this ends - my hope is the man will wake up and quietly resign. I fear it will get out sooner or later and the fallout won't be pretty.

We already know that the D & O insurance won't cover "Fred".

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 11:56 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/21/2020 11:53 AM
If it is legal for him to serve, then get over it. To he!! with what your lawyer says.

Why would I ignore what my lawyer says? Why would I not ignore my fudiciary duty?

Often lawyers are far from correct. If concerned, get another opinion but to me you sound like a busybody.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Here’s what I would do:

- confirm the conviction
- ensure there is a Board executive session to discuss
- if the decision is made to NOT inform the association of the conviction
- resign

If you have a convicted felon on your board, and your board’s attorney is telling you to notify the corporation (members), and you don’t do it, and something TBD happens in the future?

This is about honesty - if the felon didn’t disclose, if the felon didn’t respond openly, if the inference is the felon is litigious ...

Not for me.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/21/2020 11:58 AM

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 11:56 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/21/2020 11:53 AM
If it is legal for him to serve, then get over it. To he!! with what your lawyer says.

Why would I ignore what my lawyer says? Why would I not ignore my fudiciary duty?

Often lawyers are far from correct. If concerned, get another opinion but to me you sound like a busybody.

Why do I sound like a busy body? Because I am asking questions about what our HOA lawyer - who is very good - has advise us? If were a busy body I would have pushed for this months ago. If you had read all the above ^^ you would have caught that we wanted to ignore the fact that he is a felon and move on. Our lawyer (and other materials I have read) say we cannot do that.

For the record, I think this guy is a grease ball. He is someone who wanted a oceanfront penthouse (he had one) but didnt want to work for it, he wanted to steal it. He felt entitled. So I could give a sh** about his feelings. Still, I did want to ignore this about him because I didn't realize I couldn't.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeorgeS21 on 04/21/2020 12:05 PM
Here’s what I would do:

- confirm the conviction
- ensure there is a Board executive session to discuss
- if the decision is made to NOT inform the association of the conviction
- resign

If you have a convicted felon on your board, and your board’s attorney is telling you to notify the corporation (members), and you don’t do it, and something TBD happens in the future?

This is about honesty - if the felon didn’t disclose, if the felon didn’t respond openly, if the inference is the felon is litigious ...

Not for me.

We have confirmed the conviction and we meet Friday. I beleive there will be a vote to disclose, but it will be a tight vote.

I do think the felon is litigious - he has already retained a lawyer.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 12:07 PM

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/21/2020 11:58 AM

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 11:56 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/21/2020 11:53 AM
If it is legal for him to serve, then get over it. To he!! with what your lawyer says.

Why would I ignore what my lawyer says? Why would I not ignore my fudiciary duty?

Often lawyers are far from correct. If concerned, get another opinion but to me you sound like a busybody.

Why do I sound like a busy body? Because I am asking questions about what our HOA lawyer - who is very good - has advise us? If were a busy body I would have pushed for this months ago. If you had read all the above ^^ you would have caught that we wanted to ignore the fact that he is a felon and move on. Our lawyer (and other materials I have read) say we cannot do that.

For the record, I think this guy is a grease ball. He is someone who wanted a oceanfront penthouse (he had one) but didnt want to work for it, he wanted to steal it. He felt entitled. So I could give a sh** about his feelings. Still, I did want to ignore this about him because I didn't realize I couldn't.

Aha. The real reasons for your dislike of him are coming out versus you being altruistic.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/21/2020 12:15 PM

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 12:07 PM

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/21/2020 11:58 AM

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 11:56 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/21/2020 11:53 AM
If it is legal for him to serve, then get over it. To he!! with what your lawyer says.

Why would I ignore what my lawyer says? Why would I not ignore my fudiciary duty?

Often lawyers are far from correct. If concerned, get another opinion but to me you sound like a busybody.

Why do I sound like a busy body? Because I am asking questions about what our HOA lawyer - who is very good - has advise us? If were a busy body I would have pushed for this months ago. If you had read all the above ^^ you would have caught that we wanted to ignore the fact that he is a felon and move on. Our lawyer (and other materials I have read) say we cannot do that.

For the record, I think this guy is a grease ball. He is someone who wanted a oceanfront penthouse (he had one) but didnt want to work for it, he wanted to steal it. He felt entitled. So I could give a sh** about his feelings. Still, I did want to ignore this about him because I didn't realize I couldn't.

Aha. The real reasons for your dislike of him are coming out versus you being altruistic.

Im proud of not being felon. Also I don't think you know what altrusitic means b/c if you did you'd know its a compliment.

Anyway - you clearly are not helping and looking to fight so Ill be ignoring you now.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 11:58 AM
We already know that the D & O insurance won't cover "Fred".

Wow. May I ask how you all know this? Can you say a little about what the insurer or the insurance policy said about the issue?

Are you a condominium? If so, and I could be wrong, but I am wondering if this HOA can satisfy the insurance requirements that the Georgia Condominium Act requires. Did your attorney look into this? As interested, see https://casetext.com/statute/code-of-georgia/title-44-property/chapter-3-regulation-of-specialized-land-transactions/article-3-condominiums/section-44-3-107-insurance-coverage

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 04/21/2020 1:48 PM

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 11:58 AM
We already know that the D & O insurance won't cover "Fred".

Wow. May I ask how you all know this? Can you say a little about what the insurer or the insurance policy said about the issue?

Are you a condominium? If so, and I could be wrong, but I am wondering if this HOA can satisfy the insurance requirements that the Georgia Condominium Act requires. Did your attorney look into this? As interested, see https://casetext.com/statute/code-of-georgia/title-44-property/chapter-3-regulation-of-specialized-land-transactions/article-3-condominiums/section-44-3-107-insurance-coverage

We know the D and O insurance won't cover Fred b/c the lawyer asked. Yes we are a townhomes and homes.

This is what we are asking today: "but I am wondering if this HOA can satisfy the insurance requirements that the Georgia Condominium Act requires. Did your attorney look into this?"

Very good point.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

In looking at your recent comments, I have to agree that you're beginning to make this personal, and when you don't separate personalities from the primary issue, that's often when the trouble starts. It seems to me you're looking for a way to tell everyone about this guy but the rest of the board is hesitating because you also know there's nothing in your documents that prevents him from serving.

So take your feelings towards the guy out of the equation for a moment and consider if YOU feel comfortable serving with the guy. You know his past, but so far has he done anything that indicates he hasn't changed? He's the board secretary - how well has he performed in that position? By the way, if your very good HOA attorney said the homeowners should be told, did you then follow up with asking exactly how this should be done and how to deal with the ensuing fallout? If not, why not?

If you cannot work with the man in good conscious knowing what you know, perhaps you're better off resigning. And if this has been discussed in an executive session and you're thinking about spilling the beans to your neighbors anyway, I hope you know that executive session conversations are private and YOU can get into trouble if you yap about this. You might think you could get away with grabbing a newspaper article, photocopying it and stuffing it in everyone's mailbox, but in these days of Ring doorbells and whatnot, it probably wouldn't take long before the caca hit the fan and the footprints from the poo lead right back to you.

Time to make up your mind - what do YOU want to do? If you don't quite trust what the HOA attorney says (even though she's very good), it would appear you need to talk to another attorney about this if you think something's being overlooked. You may not like what you're hearing but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Do you stay on and let this guy know at least one board member will be watching him or do you quit and let the rest of the chips fall where they may? It' ok if you disagree with what some of us said (ok, maybe just me), but this ain't an amen corner. In the end, you can only be responsible for your own actions, so decide what you want to do, do it and make sure you can live with it. Good luck to you.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 1:52 PM
Yes we are a townhomes and homes.

I would check to see that the Declaration for your HOA/Condo explicitly states that your community is subject to the Georgia Condo Act. Nationwide, some townhome communities are not considered condominiums under state law.

The Georgia Property Owners Association Act might apply. It does not have the same insurance requirements as the Georgia Condominium Act.

Given the requirement of the Georgia Condo Act, I wonder to how much trouble a Georgia condo must go to find insurance when the current insurance company refuses to insure a director.

If this is a Condo is subject to the Georgia Condo Act, then:

-- This fellow will not confirm that he is the felon about which you have presumably authentic documentation, involving a huge sum of money and fraud.

-- It appears the Georgia Condo Act mandates that the condo association ensure this person.

-- Not knowing if he is a felon or not, the board and manager do not have facts to present to potential insurers.

-- The Board and manager cannot determine whether he is insurable or not. For practical purposes, I think this is the same as his being un-insurable.

-- Perhaps this is one of those rare instances when a Board is legally obliged to remove a person as a director, 'until further notice.'

-- This authorization is likely no where to be found in the condo's governing documents. It follows only from the consequences that may occur if the board is found to be violating the insurance section of the Georgia Condo Act.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 04/21/2020 2:27 PM
If you cannot work with the man in good conscious knowing what you know, perhaps you're better off resigning.

Perhaps the entire board, except the felon, should resign. Then the insurer refuses to insure the condo.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 04/21/2020 2:27 PM
In looking at your recent comments, I have to agree that you're beginning to make this personal, and when you don't separate personalities from the primary issue, that's often when the trouble starts. It seems to me you're looking for a way to tell everyone about this guy but the rest of the board is hesitating because you also know there's nothing in your documents that prevents him from serving.

So take your feelings towards the guy out of the equation for a moment and consider if YOU feel comfortable serving with the guy. You know his past, but so far has he done anything that indicates he hasn't changed? He's the board secretary - how well has he performed in that position? By the way, if your very good HOA attorney said the homeowners should be told, did you then follow up with asking exactly how this should be done and how to deal with the ensuing fallout? If not, why not?

If you cannot work with the man in good conscious knowing what you know, perhaps you're better off resigning. And if this has been discussed in an executive session and you're thinking about spilling the beans to your neighbors anyway, I hope you know that executive session conversations are private and YOU can get into trouble if you yap about this. You might think you could get away with grabbing a newspaper article, photocopying it and stuffing it in everyone's mailbox, but in these days of Ring doorbells and whatnot, it probably wouldn't take long before the caca hit the fan and the footprints from the poo lead right back to you.

Time to make up your mind - what do YOU want to do? If you don't quite trust what the HOA attorney says (even though she's very good), it would appear you need to talk to another attorney about this if you think something's being overlooked. You may not like what you're hearing but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Do you stay on and let this guy know at least one board member will be watching him or do you quit and let the rest of the chips fall where they may? It' ok if you disagree with what some of us said (ok, maybe just me), but this ain't an amen corner. In the end, you can only be responsible for your own actions, so decide what you want to do, do it and make sure you can live with it. Good luck to you.

This is not personal ....thats what I am trying to explain. Do I think he is a turd? Yes...b/c he is. I dont have time to go into all the details. BUT I did NOT want to pursue this felony thing. Other board members did, but I convinced them to drop it. We got a new lawyer this year and she stopped us and said: No, you cannot drop it. You have to take some actions. That is why we are meeting Friday. What I want to do is what is right by my neighborhood and I want to take the advice of the attorney. I reached out to this group to see if there were angles I wasnt considering and there are. You can believe me or not but I am telling you - I wish I could move on from all of this and finish my year. This is a very contentious board based on years of bad blood between some members and I dont want any part of it if I can help it.

I am not asking for an "Amen choir" and I am not asking anyone to make my decision for me. Its not all my decision anyway. The only thing I asked for is opinions of those who have been in similar situations. I also ask that people read my post before they comment.

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 04/21/2020 2:28 PM

Posted By SarahK3 on 04/21/2020 1:52 PM
Yes we are a townhomes and homes.

I would check to see that the Declaration for your HOA/Condo explicitly states that your community is subject to the Georgia Condo Act. Nationwide, some townhome communities are not considered condominiums under state law.

The Georgia Property Owners Association Act might apply. It does not have the same insurance requirements as the Georgia Condominium Act.

Given the requirement of the Georgia Condo Act, I wonder to how much trouble a Georgia condo must go to find insurance when the current insurance company refuses to insure a director.

If this is a Condo is subject to the Georgia Condo Act, then:

-- This fellow will not confirm that he is the felon about which you have presumably authentic documentation, involving a huge sum of money and fraud.

-- It appears the Georgia Condo Act mandates that the condo association ensure this person.

-- Not knowing if he is a felon or not, the board and manager do not have facts to present to potential insurers.

-- The Board and manager cannot determine whether he is insurable or not. For practical purposes, I think this is the same as his being un-insurable.

-- Perhaps this is one of those rare instances when a Board is legally obliged to remove a person as a director, 'until further notice.'

-- This authorization is likely no where to be found in the condo's governing documents. It follows only from the consequences that may occur if the board is found to be violating the insurance section of the Georgia Condo Act.

This is very helpful, thank you!

SarahK3 (Georgia)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 04/21/2020 2:30 PM

Posted By SheliaH on 04/21/2020 2:27 PM
If you cannot work with the man in good conscious knowing what you know, perhaps you're better off resigning.

Perhaps the entire board, except the felon, should resign. Then the insurer refuses to insure the condo.

I have no problem working with him. I just want to know if anyone has had a similary situation and how they handled it.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

My post about all directors but the felon resigning was intended to encourage Shelia to think further ahead.

No way should SarahK3 resign. This felon is a risk. The attorney says so. The insurer says so. Even the Georgia Condo Act indicates as much.

Shelia, if you cannot play nice here, then perhaps you should take your own advice: Resign from the forum. Would that help things?

Come on. The fact of the matter is that this condo/HOA appears to be in a serious legal pickle. Address the facts of this legal pickle. Stay away from personal attacks.