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BruceG5 (Texas)
Posts: 11
Posted:
I am on the Board of a 40 unit condominium complex. We have a neighbor that regularly harasses the residents of the unit next to them. After a period of her continuing to ring the other person's doorbell, the police "trespassed" her. Less than a week later she was documented doing it again, so the case was sent to the District Attorney. Now we have heard from the DA that a "survey is required" to prove trespassing. I'm assuming the DA is not aware that condominiums are not individually surveyed. Logic would suggest that if a survey is required then there is no situation where a person can be legally trespassed in a condominium complex. Would appreciate any ideas.

Thanks,
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Document the doorbell ringing. Have the victims file a civil suit for a restraining order.

I am surprised the police and DA are reading to pursue trespassing charges. That's a lot of taxpayer dollars being spent when nationwide, I think most attorneys would advise seeking a restraining order via a civil suit.

In either case, documentation will need to be massive. Film footage would probably be best.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
I would assume the person was trespassed from the victims property, In this case it would be the threshold of their unit. Talk to your HOA general council, but I think that is what the DA is refereeing to. just like a traditional home owner has a property line, I believe the same applies to a condo owner.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Video doorbell.

If the irritating neighbor (still having trouble understanding the “trespass” component) is dumb enough to assist in data collection by continuing to ring the doorbell, well, everything gets easier.

If they stop ringing the doorbell, problem solved.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
A surveyor can likely do a survey, but I think all you need is a legal description of the property. You can give the DA your documents, such as the original survey of the property, the plat, the owners deed, and your documents that give a legal description of the property and each unit. This can legally establish the property and the residence.

However, there's an interesting problem in that doorbells are usually located in the hallway or just outside their door, which is likely outside of the boundaries of the condo unit. If so, the offender never entered the owner's property. If this was a house on its own lot, then the offender had to enter the lot, but since this is a condominium, the doorbell (meaning the button that is pushed) is a common element, not part of the unit.

Your governing documents will have a definition of a unit and a description of the boundaries.

The association may have to press charges, not the owner. A legal description of the property (common elements) may be enough.

Do you have a fining schedule? This will also violate a provision in your documents, such as nuisance or peaceful enjoyment. What do your documents say? Why not give the offender fines?

Ask the DA to change the charge to disorderly conduct, creating a nuisance, disturbing the peace, or some other charge not trespassing.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The police can only create charges they can't drop them. It is up to the court system to do that. Not sure if a D.A.'s office can change those charges or bring more up. That is all a criminal matter for criminal court.

Why does the HOA need to provide the survey? Would it not be up to the individual owner to provide this information? This information should be available in the condo's plans that were submitted by the developer when building.

I am not sure what the situation is. Why is there doorbell ringing going on? Having been through a similar situation there has to be more details here. Had a neighbor whom would call the police because my dogs were barking. The truth is that it was HIS dogs that were. Caught on tape etc... Anyways he decided he was going to come to my door and ring my doorbell anytime he heard my dogs barking. So at 4 am he came by. Told me he was going to come ring my bell each time dogs barked. I just looked at him and said "Okay" and shut the door. Think he finally realized he's getting up at 4 am walking across wet grass to tell someone their dog is barking... It stopped. Yes, Animal control did get involved as they lived behind us. Even they agreed with me...

So why is this doorbell ringing becoming harrassment or trespassing?

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bruce

I say this in not a HOA issue. Pass the request on to the original complainer.
BruceG5 (Texas)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Thanks to all who have replied. Yes - there is a lot more to the story, but I didn't/don't see that as relevant. The fact is that the police decided to take the action. The HOA was contacted by the DA to provide a survey. In our condos, and I believe most condos, there is no survey by unit since the individual owners only own "walls in". So - back to my original question - has anyone had experience with trespassing issues on/around common areas. I appreciate the responses.

Bruce
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
A DA office getting involved is pretty serious. This doesn't sound like your run of the mill trespassing case. The police did find enough evidence to make charges. That is not that easy. Most of the time the court or DA's office drops the case due to lack of evidence of the charges. So to have a DA's office contact the condo association shows they are taking this quite seriously.

I am not sure what information you need to provide them as the HOA. You need to provide them a map of the "common area". Which not sure how that can be done unless show a copy of the building's plat. Which should be a public document.

So is the DA's office asking you to provide what is defined as "common area"?

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceG5 on 04/20/2020 4:32 PM
has anyone had experience with trespassing issues on/around common areas.
So far you have defined trespassing as ringing a person's doorbell. I cannot find this definition, or any definition like it, in any state's criminal code. Here is what the Texas Criminal Code says trespassing is:
" Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
... "

See more at https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm

You do realize that the mere act of installing a doorbell invites people to ring it. Someone who rings a doorbell is not a trespasser. If the someone rings the doorbell repeatedly, they are still not a trespasser. They may be guilty of criminal harassment, but this is a different criminal offense.

I think that, if you want intelligent answers, you are going to have to explain what the evidence is that this is a criminal trespass as defined in Sec. 30.05.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think Jeff's point matters. The doorbell is most likely on common area. So I think the hOA's CC&Rs' nuisance clause comes into play. But the HOA does need, as Jeff points out, a fining schedule and the violator of the nuisance cases must be given due process, i.e, called to hearing, etc. So....call to hearing and fine, with the fine doubled for repeat offenses.

Just where IS this doorbell?

Yes, Bruce, we're a condo building and there's no survey of units.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceG5 on 04/20/2020 4:32 PM
Thanks to all who have replied. Yes - there is a lot more to the story, but I didn't/don't see that as relevant. The fact is that the police decided to take the action. The HOA was contacted by the DA to provide a survey. In our condos, and I believe most condos, there is no survey by unit since the individual owners only own "walls in". So - back to my original question - has anyone had experience with trespassing issues on/around common areas. I appreciate the responses.

Bruce

I would contact the DA and advise them that there is no survey and ask them if there is some substitute they need. It's possible that a new assistant DA or a secretary automatically generated the letter without considering that it is a condo.

I would love to hear how this turns out. I assume they are looking for something to show that inside the door frame (including the door) is privately owned. If they can't prove that, I can't imagine a conviction.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I believe it's the DA that is trying to prosecute? So they need this evidence to prove the charges. I am struggling with needing a survey as others are too. Doorbells are wired to inside the house are they not?

Former HOA President
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
Why not call the DA and talk to him? You may not have a survey but you should have a legal description that explains what makes up the unit.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Or leave it to the affected owner/resident to sort out with the authorities.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

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