Need guidance

If the homeowner contracted directly with the vendor, why is the HOA even getting involved in this?

Using this thread, now ... pasting from my response on the dupe thread.
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At the next Board meeting agenda the topic, again, reconsider the situation, and vote, again, but to accept the vendor refund, to be passed to the owner.

Or, the president direct the MC to accept the vendor refund, and to refund the same amount, via annotated accounting process, to the owner.

The HOA should never ever give "credit" for such things on dues. Dues is your ONLY source of income. Your not a clothing store...

The HOA could have gone to the vendor on the member's behalf. Which may have been via the PM. They vendor then should have reimbursed the homeowner if found necessary. However, the HOA if it paid out of it's funds instead, they now need to go to the vendor to get their money back.

Don't get in the mindset of granting "credit". It's not good...

I would not give an assessment credit. Issue a payment from the operating budget and notate what it is for. It looks better on paper that way and leeds to less drama from the auditor. BTW I would cut the kite sting on the vendor and say buh-bye.

Any vendor that is working under the authority of the HOA should be licensed, insured and bonded. If a lawnmower throws a rock and break's the window then they should cover it.

Janet, Was the vendor hired by the HOA to perform a service on the Onwer's property?

Or did the owner hire the vendor?

Was the "service" on the owner's property? Or on property the HOA is responsible for maintaining?

Are you on the Board, Janet?

Janet has not provided specific answers to some questions asked for anybody to make an educated guess.

Hi everyone,

Thanx for the responses. I also do not understand why a Board would not accept this credit from the vendor. The vendor is contracted by the HOA. The issue the homeowner had was with the vendor. Management company brought the homeowner complaint to the Board. Board voted vendor to reimburse homeowner because management said vendor was responsible. i think this vendor is partnered with management company too. Management informed us that vendor refused to refund homeowner so put it back on agenda for vote to credit homeowner association dues per homeowner request since vendor refused to refund according to the management company. Then at the meeting on Skype the manager says they don’t recommend credit to homeowner association dues but instead to refund the homeowner from HOA funds. Board votes for this. After the vote was in the vendor logs on to the meeting and pleaded their case and says they disagree but if Board wants them to refund homeowner they will. But Manager tells vendor it was already resolved. The next day another Board member contacts vendor to see why they refused to refund. Vendor says that was not true. They offer to credit the HOA for next month service the cost of the refund. When this Board members tells the others some are excited to hear the news. But one opposes that the HOA get the credit because they didn’t vote for a change then another jumps in and says the same and finally a third now disagrees too and says close the matter. Now the majority want to deny accepting the credit from the vendor on the HOA next payment to them and stick to the vote that the refund come from HOA because that’s what the Board voted and that if we change now and ask the vendor for a credit for this refund it will send the message to the vendor that the Board decision cannot be trusted. One also said to accept the credit after the vote was documented in the minutes for this meeting would be against Board procedures. I am dumbfounded along with the other Board member as to why they would refuse this. But if majority now don’t want the credit we have to accept it because we are a minority. However we want this documented. Can we request that the minutes of the meeting state that the manager said vendor refused refund and that is why this was back on the agenda for a second vote? And that on that premise the vote then followed the recommendation made by management to refund the homeowner ourselves? Should the minutes also include that the vendor showed up late and then said though they disagreed that if the Board wanted it they would refund the vendor?

What other steps can we take if any? or is this really now over and must be considered closed due to how the law says a Board needs to operate? We are both new on the Board. The others have been on for many years.

As soon as the vendor agreed to reimburse the homeowner at the original meeting, it should have been accepted by the board.

Then a motion to amend the previous motion could have taken place, thus backpeddling the involvement of the HOA totally.

It sounds like the MC was inappropriately involved, IMO.

Hi Sue. Unfortunately that didn’t happen. But with the new information once that one of the Board members clarified that this vendor never refused to refund and is willing to credit us, what steps need to be taken now to accept the credit. One Board member is saying this would be against the Board operation rules because once something is voted on something in a Board meeting and is reflected in the minutes, it can not be undone now. Another is now saying that if we now ask the vendor for the credit after the fact that this vendor won’t trust Board decisions. And finally a third thinks the refund should come from HOA and accept no credit from vendor because that was voted on and no one authorized this one Board member to go speak to the Vendor to request a refund or credit. So they are majority and i’m with the Board member who went to speak with the vendor and the vendor told him that they never refused to refund and that they will credit our next month’s invoice the cost of the refund. I never thought the other Board members would disagree to this. Is there anything we can do now to get the credit or is it too late? Can we document officially what has occurred, meaning that this Board member went to speak to the vendor and they agreed to credit and that three Board members are now refusing to accept the credit and want to move on and close this matter? We are both new on the Board so we don’t know the laws or policies but we disagree with this.

Posted on how to do this.

Did it not make sense?

The above is the president bullying other directors. Is it unlawful? Yes, but I think fighting him may have consequences down the line. People's egos are likely invested at this point. I expect this dispute will get nastier and nastier.

Any chance you can give the forum an idea of how much money is in play here?Here is the long, legalistic answer:

Do your Bylaws state anything about who sets the agenda for meetings?

Do your Bylaws by any chance state that Robert's Rules shall be used for meetings?

Generally speaking, the President is wrong to assert, in effect, that a Board cannot change its mind. Good practices dictate that it try not to do so very often. But circumstances change. For a board to refuse to ever change its mind is irresponsible. It could be said to violate the board's fiduciary duty.It sounds like you do not have the numbers to remove him as president. Legally speaking, it is likely not true. (It depends a little on your answers to the questions above.) Practically speaking, HOA presidents often get whatever they want.

Ask whoever sets the agenda to put on it "pursuant to Robert's Rules, motion by Director _____ and Director _____ to reconsider the HOA's rejection of the vendor's offer to refund because of improper services to house #______." But expect whoever sets the agenda to refuse to put this on the agenda. If it ends up on the agenda, and like GeorgeS21, JohnC46 and I posted, make the motion to reconsider but expect to be voted down. Then you will have done everything you can at the HOA board level.

If the money is sizable, then subsequently I think some consideration should be given to taking other steps.

I'm still stuck with why, per Janet's first post an owner is involved if, as in Janet's later post, the HOA contract the vendor to do work on the common area??

Can you say, along with the cost, what this common area work was?

It could be that the Prez and other directors didn't like the other new director going directly to the vendor to speak with him. Typically, the property mgr. is o the only one in charge of vendors and if not PM then certain directors may be assigned to interact with e vendors. But t for the other director to go off on his own for a little chat was, imo, a rookie mistake.

Finally, and I still don't feel I know enough about the situation, you certainly may place on the next agenda the request to "rescind the decision" the Board previously made. If the Board votes to rescind, you then make a motion to accept the vendor's offer to...." Our board needn't comply with Robert's Rules, but we have rescinded decisions made at previous meetings, as pointed out, rarely but we have and we have overturned prior decisions.

(If a Board wants to revisit a decision made during the meeting that the Board voted on it, a director on the prevailing side makes a motion to "reconsider" the decision made earlier, per Robert's.)

Why are you dancing around stating exactly what work was done and what was damaged? It's possible this information could give you a better answer but you won't know if you don't tell the whole story.

this information was covered in an executive session so i think i need to be vague to protect confidentiality? we are new to all this so not sure. all we need to know now is how to issue this refund without accepting responsibility. this is what our management company suggest we do to avoid this homeowner possibly suing for it. the MC puts it on the vendor. the vendor refuses to accept responsibility. also what do we do if the majority of the board agrees to accept responsibility if two of us disagree? can we formally document that as new board members we disagree that the HOA accept responsibility for this even though we agree to refund the homeowner so we can move on? the technicality has now been corrected but we have no answers as to how long it was taking a place.

Augustin and Mark thank you. The bylaws states all meetings should follow a recognized system of parliamentary procedures or any parliamentary procedures that the HOA can adopt. We are ok with not taking the credit from the vendor at this point. But we never voted that the HOA was responsible for the technicality as this Board member is claiming. So all we want to do is two things now:
1. Make it known that the Board never voted that the HOA was responsible for this technicality (me and the other Board member don’t remember this vote happening as this Board member is now claiming)
2. For the MC to process the refund but making sure that by doing this it does not mean the HOA accepted responsibility for this technicality

What do we do to make this happen?

if you check closely, that wording will be for meetings of members, not board meetings.

Make a motion to add this a vote if we agree to accept the credit from the vendor for the reimbursement to the agenda for the next Board meeting? Or make a motion at the next Board meeting to vote for this? How do we put this item on the agenda? Does it require the majority of the Board to put this on the next agenda to vote on? Or is the request from the both of us Board members suffice to put this item in the agenda?

Also what does it mean then that it says meeting for members must follow some recognized parliamentary system ? Does this mean Board members meetings don’t have to?

Make a motion now via e-mail to all Board members or at the next meeting? Do I need the majority of the Board to agree to place an item on the next meeting agenda? I’m a total rookie so don’t even know how to make a motion.

This is not universally so. It is not uncommon for Bylaws to require board meetings to follow Robert's Rules or another form of parliamentary procedure.

Thank you Augustin. I’ll do that

A former HOA of mine's Bylaws state that Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (current edition) shall govern the conduct of meetings of the Board and the Annual Meeting of Members.

Google on "robert's rules" "shall govern the conduct of Association proceedings." Many HOA bylaws come up stating the following or similar: "Robert's Rules of Order (the then current edition) shall govern the conduct of Association proceedings when not in conflict with" statute yada.

Thanks for link. Will read.

Question: What are the specifics of what Board members cannot talk about in between Board meetings?

Thanks Mark. Read the link and it was helpful in answering my questions.

Thank you Augustin for your information too. All the feedback has been helpful to me. Thank you everyone