How should we handle this?

Started by DavidW20 • 16 replies • 1434 views

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DavidW20 (Texas)
Posts: 4

Posted:

I am currently the President of good sized HOA approximately 1700+ homes. I have been on the Board for a little over a year and we have done some good things, and want to continue. Anyway.... There are 3 residents(one a former Board Member that was removed from the Board by the residents)who continually stir crap up. These three residents have started their own rogue newsletter and they twist issues around to fit their agenda. Most of our residents know what is going on, and blow it off, but this is becoming a PIA for us Board members.

I recieved a request from one of these trouble makers for information. The information requested is as follows:

1) General Meeting Minutes from 1996-1999.

2) Current Detailed Financial Report.

3) Articles of Inc.

4) Plan of Merger.

5) By-Laws after merger.

6) Any Amendments of official Documents filed with the State.

7) Reserve Study.

8) Current Reserve including the amount budgeted for the reserve.

I know that some of the above information should be given without hesitation, and we will give it. Some of it however I believe is going to be used for their rogue newsletter to bash us. We usually give an Income and Expense statement, but I do not feel that our reserve study should be given out, especially an incomplete study(which it is). This reserve study was done before the current Board was in place, and it does not include a funding analysis to go with it. As far as meeting minutes, I do not even know if our current Management company even has these minutes.

How would you guys handle this?

Thanks
DW

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

David:

I think they are entitled to all the documents they requested, however, you are able to charge them reasonable fees for research and copying. Each state has different guidelines as to the maximum amount you can charge, I would charge them.

As for their rogue newsletter, I am assuming an HOA of your size has dealt with an attorney before. I would consult with them giving them examples of the newsletters they have published in the past. If they are presenting false information your attorney could write a cease and desist letter to them. It isn't cheap to produce a newsletter for that many people, do they have deep pockets? Is the information they are presenting false and misleading?

DavidW20 (Texas)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Some of the information is no big deal, some of it however is False and misleading.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

I am curious why you think your reserve study should be private? The reserve study could end up requiring a special assessment to fund these new reserves, which would definitely have an impact on what members will be required to pay. I would certainly be interested if my HOA was doing a major reserve study that could impact my assessment and even resale values. Harold

DavidW20 (Texas)
Posts: 4

Posted:

I have been told by our Management Company that it is an incomplete Reserve study, because it does not have a funding plan with it. It gives us a basic idea about what is due when as far as replacement,or repairs to our amenities, structures, grounds stuff like that. It has already been shown to be incorrect on a few things.

Secret, is not a bad thing in this case. Especially if you have people looking at it that think it is Gospel and needs to be followed to a tee.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

DavidW20: The purpose of having a complete Reserve Study, for HOA purposes, is to compute the cost of repair/maintenance of capital reserve assets which the association is responsible to maintain; some of which may be, curbing, streets, drainage system, etc. Without a reserve study which shows the cost to repair/maintain at 5 yrs, or perhaps 10 yrs., or maybe complete redo at 20 yrs., a community association is not adequately preparing for the future.

I would suggest you have a study done with the correct numbers included to allow the Board to include an amount as part of the regular assessment fee.
You may find your documents do state that it is a ongoing responsibility of the Board to adequately see to the reserve fund, and it is part of the Board's fudiciary responsibility to the community as a whole.

I don't think that residents would feel that 'it' has to be followed to a tee; however, there does need to be a plan in effect for repair and maintenance based on the study. Perhaps this is of concern, and rightfully so, to this group.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

David, we handle this by having the owner in good standing follow the established Rules and Regulations on Inspection and Copying Association Records. Attached is an example. We pull the records, stay with the member during inspection, provide copies, and refile the records. The cost for our time at $40/hour and $0.15/copy is paid by the owner. An estimate of this cost is provided when scheduling the time to come to our office to inspect.

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HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Roger - $40 per hour is outrageous! That defeats the purpose of allowing members access to the records of their HOA. Arizona does not allow charges to members for reviewing HOA records. (The MC can charge the HOA for their time, but those charges cannot be passed on to the member.) They can charge 15 cents per page for copies, but that is all. Harold
P.S. David - check your state statutes for what records you can withhold from your members. Arizona has a specific list of which records may be legally withheld, and reserve studies in not on that list.

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidW20 on 10/01/2007 2:03 PM
I am currently the President of good sized HOA approximately 1700+ homes. I have been on the Board for a little over a year and we have done some good things, and want to continue. Anyway.... There are 3 residents(one a former Board Member that was removed from the Board by the residents)who continually stir crap up. These three residents have started their own rogue newsletter and they twist issues around to fit their agenda. Most of our residents know what is going on, and blow it off, but this is becoming a PIA for us Board members.

I recieved a request from one of these trouble makers for information. The information requested is as follows:

1) General Meeting Minutes from 1996-1999.

2) Current Detailed Financial Report.

3) Articles of Inc.

4) Plan of Merger.

5) By-Laws after merger.

6) Any Amendments of official Documents filed with the State.

7) Reserve Study.

8) Current Reserve including the amount budgeted for the reserve.

I know that some of the above information should be given without hesitation, and we will give it. Some of it however I believe is going to be used for their rogue newsletter to bash us. We usually give an Income and Expense statement, but I do not feel that our reserve study should be given out, especially an incomplete study(which it is). This reserve study was done before the current Board was in place, and it does not include a funding analysis to go with it. As far as meeting minutes, I do not even know if our current Management company even has these minutes.

How would you guys handle this?

Thanks
DW

David,

We have your rogue ex-board members brother living in our community. Same situation, got thrown off the board by the other board members, constantly tries to find fault with our board and is very vocal at meetings about it. He even asked for the same doc's last year plus more. How about this; the bill came to $1800. yes $1800 and he paid for it. Guess what? He has never used one document. Give him the documents he has requested. Even if there is an incorrect reserve estimate. Yes, you should have a new study done but at least you are funding one. That can be explained away just as you did here.

Our board used to get very nervous when we saw him walk into a meeting. IMO, know every piece of paper you give him backwards. If questions arise, tell the truth.

Most of these dissenters don't have anything else to do. They are frustrated and will eventually peter out, the homeowners know what they are about and will get tired of their tirades also.

PS: you are not required to keep a piece of paper any longer than 7 years in most states. Check your doc's, they usually address this.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HaroldS on 10/01/2007 4:29 PM
Roger - $40 per hour is outrageous!

Harold, if you think $40/hour is outrageous I suggest you check your management agreement - most M C's charge at least 25% more for their hourly services. Would you rather, as a homeowner, be paying for a request to view numerous documents over several years? Nancy stated a cost of $1800 for just one of these irate homeowners. Would you, as a member of the HOA, rather help pay for these type requests or have the requestors pay?

SusanJ3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 61

Posted:

But why would a homeowner have to pay for documents? I would, if I had to, but I stil feel that they should be available and free beyond copying charges. Our Treasure feels our abasentee owners aren't entitled because they are investors and not adding anything to the community but problem renters. I have a property in another state and am routinely sent appropriate paperwork.

SusanJ3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 61

Posted:

Got away from me...

I realize the real issue is the motivation for the paperwork. I think not giving someone something they are entitled to will simply fuel them further.

DavidW20 (Texas)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Susan, you are correct.

The question is: The Motivation for the request.

I know for a fact, that the current Board (US) has done an outstanding job of managing our community. I have had more thanks from residents than I expected, and things that have been neglected are now being brought into shape. The bottom line is we have nothing to hide from our residents. We do not do Good Ole' Boy stuff like past Boards. My frustration is.....

Knowing all of the above, and still having three residents twist and manipulate information that shows we are doing a good job into something other than what it is just flat pisses me off. I, along with 6 other residents are very active in our community, where as these three individuals do nothing for our community.

OK Rant off

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

We believe almost all association documents should be readily available to any member in good standing at little or no cost. HOA's should be open and responsive to the members. To illustrate following are our procedures:

Attached is an example of Rules and Regulations for Inspection and Copying of Association Records. Note that the Colorado Common Interest Ownership Act requires certain documents (listed on the second half of the page) to be provided to every member yearly. Additionally, we email minutes and monthly financial reports, to those members on a notification list, at no cost. Otherwise, when a member makes a request for copies of documents, for which are digital copies, these are also emailed at no cost.

It is only when hard copy documents are viewed (these involve considerable time) that we charge for the managing agent's time. A member is never be allowed to view these documents unsupervised because we are responsible if stolen.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

See attachment

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📝1102481731971.doc(26 KB)

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

Susan,

The $1,800 we charged a ex-board member/homeowner reflects may trips to an off site storage center where we keep documents. A office person went through each and every box, with the help of board members to fill the requested list. The list entailed a copy of our financials, each P&L, General Ledger and Balance Sheet for the 7 years past. All tax returns, any backup documentation on all expenses for the balance sheets. On and on...
Our financials are most months 40 pages. The copies alone filled 4 filing boxes and it took almost one month of work (3-4 hours per day) of putting all this together.

Not charge. We had to take someone away from their job, that the HOA was paying for. Not to mention the individuals that helped from the board so that she could catch up on her work that she had to neglect.

The common documents are on our web site, CC&R's, Minutes, he wanted hard copies.

This was extreme but it does happen. If a homeowner comes in and requests documents, they use the proper format as laid down in our By-Laws, they will have them.

As I stated previously, he has never used one piece of paper against the board since he received them in March of 2006.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Whatever Roger. Just happy Arizona does not allow charging members for searching thru their HOA documents. Harold

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