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KevinA3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Can an HOA limit visitors inside my home above and beyond state and federal requirements during covid 19.

Bear in mind all common areas deliveries etc have remained open. But I’m told no renting no visitors contractors etc till they review in June. I’m under contract for a rental beginning May 15.

Thanks
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinA3 on 04/12/2020 6:53 AM
Can an HOA limit visitors inside my home above and beyond state and federal requirements during covid 19.

Bear in mind all common areas deliveries etc have remained open. But I’m told no renting no visitors contractors etc till they review in June. I’m under contract for a rental beginning May 15.

Thanks

I'm confused. Is this a visitor or a renter? If it's a renter are you renting a room or the entire home?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Unless your HOA has veto authority over who may rent or buy in your community, I doubt that it has any say. It's up to the police to enforce any state orders regarding shelter-in-place or quarantining. The only thing an HOA can legitimately restrict is the common areas: they can close the pool or clubhouse, for instance.

I'd be more concerned over whether pandemic restrictions may be grounds for terminating a rental agreement without penalty. I've seen the question posed but haven't seen any answers yet. But that should not involve the HOA at all unless they are a party to rental agreements (which would be spelled out in your CC&Rs).
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
I honestly don't think the HOA can deny your guest entry. I've worked security at some luxury high-rise condos, and they've limited the number of guest each unit was allowed to have at one time to 5 people. They may be able to amend that number to 2 people during these times. With that said, your gripe is with your landlord not the HOA. Most HOA's won't entertain a notion from a renter because their contract is with the unit owner not the renter. You need to send a letter to your landlord first to address the issue.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I agree with Cathy and LetA. It was something a few people wanted to do in my HOA a couple of weeks ago and we decided we couldn't do it. Homeowners had friends and relatives coming to visit and use our pool, which has remained open. We wondered if we could open the pool to ONLY homeowners and tenants while excluding guests and visitors. One owner's daughter came to visit from NYC at the beginning of April. More than a few homeowners were up in arms. If we had an armed border checkpoint at our front gate it would have been manned for several weeks already.

We decided the only way to keep guests and visitors out of the pool was to shut it down for everybody, owners included. And that's for a common ammenity. I seriously doubt an HOA could legally restrict who homeowners may invite into their homes. Restricting that could very well be in violation of one or more laws.
KevinA3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I’m the owner should’ve been clearer I’m renting the unit out for summer
KevinA3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks for everyone’s input.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I don't think an HOA can interfere with your rental/lease. That is a contract, too, and unless the CC&Rs give the association the power to restrict, rescind, or modify YOUR agreement with YOUR tenant, they can't do anything. They CAN withhold approval of your upcoming lease if that power is granted in the CC&Rs. Other than the CC&Rs, though, they just can't make stuff up as they go. The Emergency Powers boards in Florida now have, because of the Governor's declaration, do not include the ability to ignore the CC&Rs when convenient.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with Geno.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Right now I don't think it's a HOA decision as much as a common sense/State law one. Seriously, if the state is under a stay at home order, the police can get involved. Our state is under a stay at home and so is our city. Many people have to have a special "Mission Essential" pass to go certain places. You can still go to the grocery store and/or work. It's just if you get pulled over without a reason to be out, they can fine you.

So for me, not sure if this is a good time to be moving or renting in any state till this is more under control.

Former HOA President
KevinA3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Agreed this is for couple from this same town while they transition between homes.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
Hi,

Unless the HOA explicitly prevents you from having renters, you can go ahead with the contract.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinA3 on 04/12/2020 6:53 AM
I’m told no renting no visitors contractors etc till they review in June. I’m under contract for a rental beginning May 15.
I live in the safety of a state far from any Coronavirus epicenter and with a governor who I feel has been brilliant. From this safe location and in great leisure, I think these are interesting times. I can understand communities and even states who do not want New Yorkers. To say the least, GenoS's real-life example (of hostility to New Yorkers) is notable. Watching the footage of the refrigerated trailers parked next to NYC hospitals collecting bodies, and reading about NYC health workers often being laid up with the terrible, long-lasting pain of Coronavirus and often dying, is striking. Who wants this in one's local hospital or in one's home state? Who wants people who may be infected, yet show no outward signs, walking on the grounds of one's condo, with its inevitable close quarters? Who wants to deal with what will be the necessary expense of professional disinfecting of one's condo's interior or the condo's grounds?

To address the legalities: If the covenants do not permit restrictions of the type KevinA3's board has applied, would the board be vindicated in a court battle? (I know: During this pandemic, the last thing the courts need is another lawsuit. I suppose judges who have ordered telephonic and similar remote attendance at hearings are pre-empting Shakespeare's "Kill all the lawyers." Damn it.)

GenoS wisely observes:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 04/12/2020 12:11 PM
The Emergency Powers boards in Florida now have, because of the Governor's declaration, do not include the ability to ignore the CC&Rs when convenient.
Here's what the Florida Condo Act says, under "718.1265ā€ƒAssociation emergency powers."

=== Start Excerpt from Florida Condo Act ===
(g)ā€ƒBased upon advice of emergency management officials or upon the advice of licensed professionals retained by the board, determine any portion of the condominium property unavailable for entry or occupancy by unit owners, family members, tenants, guests, agents, or invitees to protect the health, safety, or welfare of such persons.
(h)ā€ƒRequire the evacuation of the condominium property in the event of a mandatory evacuation order in the locale in which the condominium is located. Should any unit owner or other occupant of a condominium fail or refuse to evacuate the condominium property where the board has required evacuation, the association shall be immune from liability or injury to persons or property arising from such failure or refusal.
(i)ā€ƒBased upon advice of emergency management officials or upon the advice of licensed professionals retained by the board, determine whether the condominium property can be safely inhabited or occupied. However, such determination is not conclusive as to any determination of habitability pursuant to the declaration.
=== End Excerpt ==

I think (g) above might be enough to legally empower KevinA3's Board to prohibit rentals. Until the issue lands in court, I think it's hard to say. But from where I am sitting, this is a raging, highly contagious, virulent disease laying people on their backs, in pain, for weeks and often killing them. Because this is about safety, and because the threat is real, I am inclined to support KevinA3's board on this one.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Oops; this is the pre-amble to the statute's section on "Association Emergency Powers"

718.1265ā€ƒAssociation emergency powers.—
"(1)ā€ƒTo the extent allowed by law and unless specifically prohibited by the declaration of condominium, the articles, or the bylaws of an association, and consistent with the provisions of s. 617.0830, the board of administration, in response to damage caused by an event for which a state of emergency is declared pursuant to s. 252.36 in the locale in which the condominium is located, may, but is not required to, exercise the following powers:"

Does KevinA3's condo's declaration specifically prohibit the board from restricting rentals? Even if it does, if I were on the Board, I think I'd make the owner fight for his or her right to rent. Because I take some offense to there trying to make money when the risk of serious illness and death to many is so high, especially in such close quarters. We're all suffering financially. Go ahead and sue, landlords. My position is, with the risks to others being so high, you can damn well pay for your greed.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I vaguely remember that after Cathy's Fearless Prediction #13 that we would see covid-19-related HOA lawsuits, some folks insisted that there would be NO such lawsuits... [grin]

Whether there will be time and resources for such lawsuits is open to debate, and Cathy has no Fearless Predictions about that.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/13/2020 10:08 AM
I vaguely remember that after Cathy's Fearless Prediction #13 that we would see covid-19-related HOA lawsuits, some folks insisted that there would be NO such lawsuits... [grin]
This exchange between CathyA3 and myself took place at https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/view/topic/postid/281665/forumid/1/tpage/1/Default.aspx . I do not think a lawsuit (or viable threat of same) over renting is quite the same. But if you want to say I am back pedaling or equivocating or pulling something like a Brett Kavanaugh, I understand. (I am chuckling here).

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 04/13/2020 9:14 AM
Does KevinA3's condo's declaration specifically prohibit the board from restricting rentals?

I think it's an HOA. Nevertheless, the HOA statute's preamble to the "Emergency Powers" section says,

"720.316 Association Emergency Powers -
(1) To the extent allowed by law, unless specifically prohibited by the declaration or other recorded governing documents, and consistent with s. 617.0830, the board of directors, in response to damage caused by an event for which a state of emergency is declared pursuant to s. 252.36 in the area encompassed by the association, may exercise the following powers:"

The condo and HOA statutes are almost identical there.

On March 27 the DBPR issued "Emergency Order 2020-04" which says the HOA, Co-op, and HOA statutory language that limits the exercise of emergency powers conditioned upon a "response to damage caused by an event" is suspended and the emergency powers "are hereby available" to help protect the health, safety, etc.

Sections 6, 7, and 8 or the order suspend the deadlines for the annual financial reports that must be prepared every year for Condo, Co-Op, and Timeshare Associations. The curious part is the deadline for HOAs is NOT suspended. These annual financial reports do not have to be filed with the state, but rather must be made available to all of the owners in an associaion. They are typically required to be completed by the end of April every year ("no later than the 120th day of the year"). If I was a condo unit owner, I don't think I'd like that provision too much.
KevinA3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks for all the responses having lost my Dad to Coronavirus only two days ago I have no interest in exposing anyone to anything.. having said that the boards inconsistency is where my problems is. My son came over for dinner yesterday bear in mind he lived with us till few weeks ago now he visits daily and sleeps on our boat because his brothers family has been on lockdown in Florida with us since this started. Woman downstairs chased out on to dock yelling and trying to take his pic saying he was guest guest are not allowed my son asked her repeatedly to maintain 6' she went up to him blew in his face and laughed! I called police they were reluctant to do anything..

Easter and the day after my dad his grandfather died this is what I'm dealing with!!

It's not about the rental
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
You may be able to negotiate an agreement with the board to allow the rental if the renters agree to not move in furniture, not use any common element facilities, and quarantine for the first 14 days.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinA3 on 04/13/2020 5:55 PM
Thanks for all the responses having lost my Dad to Coronavirus only two days ago I have no interest in exposing anyone to anything.

I'm very sorry to hear that, KevinA3. That's awful. I wish you and your family peace and the strength to get through this terrible time.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
KevinA3, thank you for explaining. Take care.

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