TraceyB (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posts: 1
Posted:
Does anyone know if the Board can deny approving an application for a new fence if the homeowner is delinquent in their HOA dues?
A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
Delinquent Dues but Homeowner wants permission to put in a fence
Started by TraceyB • 16 replies • 1042 views
💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You can whatever you documents authorize the board to do, so pull them out and read them.
That said, don't be surprised if this isn't addressed. bylaws and CCRs aren't intended to address every single issue that may come up in your community (otherwise they would take too much time to read and it's already had enough people don't read what's already there.) Most of the time your documents do give the board the authority to enact additional rules to flash out the documents as long as they don't override them or contradict local and state law.
So use your common sense in this situation. If someone's delinquent in assessments, but has the money to build a fence, would YOU grant permission? You and your should think about that and then make a decision.
That said, don't be surprised if this isn't addressed. bylaws and CCRs aren't intended to address every single issue that may come up in your community (otherwise they would take too much time to read and it's already had enough people don't read what's already there.) Most of the time your documents do give the board the authority to enact additional rules to flash out the documents as long as they don't override them or contradict local and state law.
So use your common sense in this situation. If someone's delinquent in assessments, but has the money to build a fence, would YOU grant permission? You and your should think about that and then make a decision.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TraceyB on 04/10/2020 5:57 AM
Does anyone know if the Board can deny approving an application for a new fence if the homeowner is delinquent in their HOA dues?
Does anyone know if the Board can deny approving an application for a new fence if the homeowner is delinquent in their HOA dues?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 04/10/2020 7:38 AM
Does the fence otherwise meet the architectural requirements for approval? If yes, and if push came to shove, I think a court would contemplate whether denying the fence, on account of the HOA members being delinquent, was an "arbitrary and capricious" action. Perhaps it is, especially if such an action is not specifically named as allowed in TraceyB's HOA's governing documents. But if I were on this HOA's board, I think I would vote to deny the fence, explicitly stating that the member's being in arrears was the reason for the denial. See what the member does in response. Then report back here.Posted By TraceyB on 04/10/2020 5:57 AM
Does anyone know if the Board can deny approving an application for a new fence if the homeowner is delinquent in their HOA dues?
Does anyone know if the Board can deny approving an application for a new fence if the homeowner is delinquent in their HOA dues?
I agree. Deny it for being behind in dues and see what happens.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 04/10/2020 9:31 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 04/10/2020 7:38 AM
Does the fence otherwise meet the architectural requirements for approval? If yes, and if push came to shove, I think a court would contemplate whether denying the fence, on account of the HOA members being delinquent, was an "arbitrary and capricious" action. Perhaps it is, especially if such an action is not specifically named as allowed in TraceyB's HOA's governing documents. But if I were on this HOA's board, I think I would vote to deny the fence, explicitly stating that the member's being in arrears was the reason for the denial. See what the member does in response. Then report back here.Posted By TraceyB on 04/10/2020 5:57 AM
Does anyone know if the Board can deny approving an application for a new fence if the homeowner is delinquent in their HOA dues?
Does anyone know if the Board can deny approving an application for a new fence if the homeowner is delinquent in their HOA dues?
I agree. Deny it for being behind in dues and see what happens.
ADD ON
The BOD/ARC will not consider any requests from those delinquent in their dues.
CD6 (Texas)
Posts: 34
Posts: 34
Posted:
Hmm,
They have money to build a fence but not pay dues.
They need to prioritize their finances.
That being said, our ACC would not grant permission.
They have money to build a fence but not pay dues.
They need to prioritize their finances.
That being said, our ACC would not grant permission.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm with those who say deny the fence.
BUT, a few months ago, when we temporarily didn't have a full ARC, as required by our CC&Rs, our Board considered denying a request to install new hardwood floors because the owners was delinquent. But, at the board meeting , the PM informed us the owner wanted new floors to help them sell their unit. We OK'd the floors.
BUT, a few months ago, when we temporarily didn't have a full ARC, as required by our CC&Rs, our Board considered denying a request to install new hardwood floors because the owners was delinquent. But, at the board meeting , the PM informed us the owner wanted new floors to help them sell their unit. We OK'd the floors.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are you on the Board, Tracey? Or did you apply for the fence?
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
One has nothing to do with the other. Unless there is something in your governing documents to the contrary, if the fence is in compliance with your CC&Rs you must approve it.
Most of the lawsuits I've heard of, where HOAs have lost, it's because the HOA assumed some authority they did not have.
Most of the lawsuits I've heard of, where HOAs have lost, it's because the HOA assumed some authority they did not have.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 04/10/2020 11:27 AM
I'm with those who say deny the fence.
BUT, a few months ago, when we temporarily didn't have a full ARC, as required by our CC&Rs, our Board considered denying a request to install new hardwood floors because the owners was delinquent. But, at the board meeting , the PM informed us the owner wanted new floors to help them sell their unit. We OK'd the floors.
I'm with those who say deny the fence.
BUT, a few months ago, when we temporarily didn't have a full ARC, as required by our CC&Rs, our Board considered denying a request to install new hardwood floors because the owners was delinquent. But, at the board meeting , the PM informed us the owner wanted new floors to help them sell their unit. We OK'd the floors.
I understand why you would do that but isn't that being a little arbitrary?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BenA2 on 04/11/2020 4:40 PM
One has nothing to do with the other. Unless there is something in your governing documents to the contrary, if the fence is in compliance with your CC&Rs you must approve it.
Most of the lawsuits I've heard of, where HOAs have lost, it's because the HOA assumed some authority they did not have.
One has nothing to do with the other. Unless there is something in your governing documents to the contrary, if the fence is in compliance with your CC&Rs you must approve it.
Most of the lawsuits I've heard of, where HOAs have lost, it's because the HOA assumed some authority they did not have.
True, but nothing wrong with pushing back a little bit. One can back down if it gets sticky, which I doubt it will.
SheilaJ1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 291
Posts: 291
Posted:
Agree with Ben, our docs don't authorize denial based on delinquent status. Plus you don't know their financial situation, they may need it urgently for security purposes or perhaps getting it financed or simply building it themselves or from a friend.
Instead of a denial, perhaps a middle ground would be to ask them to catch up on dues before you can process the application or perhaps have them setup a payment plan. See their response.
Instead of a denial, perhaps a middle ground would be to ask them to catch up on dues before you can process the application or perhaps have them setup a payment plan. See their response.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheilaJ1 on 04/11/2020 4:57 PM
Agree with Ben, our docs don't authorize denial based on delinquent status. Plus you don't know their financial situation, they may need it urgently for security purposes or perhaps getting it financed or simply building it themselves or from a friend.
Instead of a denial, perhaps a middle ground would be to ask them to catch up on dues before you can process the application or perhaps have them setup a payment plan. See their response.
Agree with Ben, our docs don't authorize denial based on delinquent status. Plus you don't know their financial situation, they may need it urgently for security purposes or perhaps getting it financed or simply building it themselves or from a friend.
Instead of a denial, perhaps a middle ground would be to ask them to catch up on dues before you can process the application or perhaps have them setup a payment plan. See their response.
If they can get financing then they can do the same for what they owe. If they can afford to buy the wood for the fence then they have money to apply it to what they owe.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posts: 310
Posted:
I would follow Johnc46 and create a rule that applications don't get reviewed for members more than 30 days past due. But first I would double check my documents and make sure there wasn't automatic approval if not responded to in a certain time.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
If your not in "good standing" then you can be denied to run for a board position. So why not apply that to other things like no use of amenities or approval of projects? Our HOA we would deny approvals to those who aren't in "good standing" and owed money.
Why they want to put up the fence? I am not judging someone for being able to afford a fence and not dues. There are various reasons why that can happen. It's just would like to know their motivation for a fence versus not paying their dues?
Why they want to put up the fence? I am not judging someone for being able to afford a fence and not dues. There are various reasons why that can happen. It's just would like to know their motivation for a fence versus not paying their dues?
Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I think the member not in good standing is the route to follow. If not in good standing all privileges are withdrawn including ARC request ability.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I do not believe all "privileges" can be withdrawn unless your governing docs say so. "Good standing" does not apply to ARC applications, only to voting and, often, serving on the board.
Calif, however, no longer permits Owners to be kept from voting if they are not in "good standing," though its a little more implicate than that.
Calif, however, no longer permits Owners to be kept from voting if they are not in "good standing," though its a little more implicate than that.
🎯 You've read this entire discussion
Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:
- ✓ Ask follow-up questions
- ✓ Share your experience
- ✓ Get expert advice
- ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in here