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RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
My Association's CCR's, in its Duties of Association section, states: " The Board of Directors of the Association shall oversee the activities of the Association to such an extent as it may take whatever action, in good faith, as it considers necessary to provide for the upkeep and aesthetic appearance of the Subdivision for the common benefit of all the members of the Association.

Would that duty of good faith be breached if the following scenario were to happen:

3 members, of a 5 member Board, gave notice of resignation to be effective March 15th. That Board had a Board meeting on March 11, and those 3 resigning Board members announced they decided to not resign, revoke their resignation notices and instead are going to vote the other 2 Board members off the board, which the Association's by-laws allow "with or without cause."

Basically the question is would giving resignation notice and then a week later rescinding those resignations to instead vote off 2 other members by breach of good faith and therefore violate the CCRs in those actions?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
These seem to be bylaws issues, not CC&Rs issues. "Good faith" does not apply to your situation.

Please cite the bylaw which states directors may remove other directors from the board. That would be very unusual. Also see TX corporations code on this topic assuming you're incorporated.

Directors can usually remove Officers from their officer position, e.g, president, VP, etc.

Who did the three send their resignation notices to??

Oh.... hypothetical --I just lost interest.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/05/2020 3:44 PM
These seem to be bylaws issues, not CC&Rs issues. "Good faith" does not apply to your situation.

Please cite the bylaw which states directors may remove other directors from the board. That would be very unusual. Also see TX corporations code on this topic assuming you're incorporated.

Directors can usually remove Officers from their officer position, e.g, president, VP, etc.

Who did the three send their resignation notices to??

Oh.... hypothetical --I just lost interest.

In By-laws: "7.05 Removal and Resignation. The Board may remove any Director from office, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the whole Board". -the rest of 7.05 deals with resignation, so I am not quoting it.

Only the last part is hypothetical. Three Board members gave notice to the whole membership that they are resigning effective March 15th. There is still a Board meeting planned for March 11th. A Board member suspect the last part will happen.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Today is March 5th. How did the three already have a meeting on March 11th. Did I lose 6 or more days somewhere?
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Sorry, it was a scenario.
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/05/2020 3:34 PM
My Association's CCR's, in its Duties of Association section, states: " The Board of Directors of the Association shall oversee the activities of the Association to such an extent as it may take whatever action, in good faith, as it considers necessary to provide for the upkeep and aesthetic appearance of the Subdivision for the common benefit of all the members of the Association.


As per the text, the good faith requirement applies to "action...necessary to provide for the upkeep and aesthetic appearance of the Subdivision for the common benefit of all the members of the Association".

The good faith doesn't, by the terms of what you posted, apply to board elections.

Board members who are voted off may have a claim of being deceived by the other board members, or may have a bad-faith claim under common law.

But your CCRs don't give you, as a regular owner, any "good faith" protections in this case because those protections don't apply to board elections.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Ah, so mainly real. I think we want to see more of your bylaws. Is, for instance, the quote you gave us in a section about officers?? Or in a section about directors?

So your bylaws say that the board must "accept" the resignation of the directors?

what do you mean they gave the whole membership their resignation? An announcement? A written letter to every Owner? what does that bylaw section say about resignation?
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/05/2020 5:01 PM
Ah, so mainly real. I think we want to see more of your bylaws. Is, for instance, the quote you gave us in a section about officers?? Or in a section about directors?

Article Seven, Board of Directors, Officers and Their Duties.

There are four articles dealing with "Board of Directors"

Article Four: Nomination, Election, and Term of Office
Article Five: Meetings of Directors
Article Six: Power and Duties
Article Seven: Officers and Their Duties - which is where 7.05 is located.

Which to quot it again: "7.05 Removal and Resignation. The Board may remove any Director from office, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the whole Board". -the rest of 7.05 deals with resignation, so I am not quoting it.

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/05/2020 5:01 PM

So your bylaws say that the board must "accept" the resignation of the directors?

Yes, it is in the rest of 7.05. Here is the rest of it:

"Any officer or Director may resign at any time, giving notice to the Board, the President, or the Secretary. Such resignation shall take effect on the date of receipt of such notice, or at any later time specified therein, and unless otherwise specified therein, the acceptance of such resignation shall not be necessary to make it effective."

Note: Director is uppercase "D" and officer is lowercase "o".
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/05/2020 5:01 PM

what do you mean they gave the whole membership their resignation? An announcement? A written letter to every Owner? what does that bylaw section say about resignation?

They sent an email notice to the every member, from the official email address of the whole Board. The Board has an overall email address which supposedly all Board members can use and see, and individual ones for each officer. Again, this notice was sent from the overall one. The notice is titled, "NOTICE to XXXXXXX members" XXXXXX = acronym of the Association.

As shown in my response above, they are supposed to give a notice the the Board, President or Secretary. Perhaps that was done. I do not know. All I know is the notice described above.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/05/2020 5:01 PM
what does that bylaw section say about resignation?

As quoted above, 7.05 deals with resignations but it is also mentioned in Article four, which again deals with "Nomination, Election and Term of Office."

"4.05 Removal. Any Director may be removed from the Board, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the Members of the Association. Any Director may resign from the Board on thirty (30) days advance notice to the Board. In the event of death, resignation, or removal of a Director, his successor shall be selected by the remaining members of the Board, or if at the end of the year, by the Tract Owners at the annual meeting."

I do not know if any notice was given to the Board or if done within 30 days as 4.05 requires. I just know about that notice and it was made yesterday with an effective date of the 15th, so it was not within 30 days but there is no requirement to put the Members on notice anyway.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/05/2020 5:01 PM
Ah, so mainly real. I think we want to see more of your bylaws. Is, for instance, the quote you gave us in a section about officers?? Or in a section about directors?

So your bylaws say that the board must "accept" the resignation of the directors?

what do you mean they gave the whole membership their resignation? An announcement? A written letter to every Owner? what does that bylaw section say about resignation?

See all my answers above.

In this post, I want to note that the CCRs mention the Board very little nor give any detail on the Board. The CCR just defines the Board of Directors and puts forth their general duty to carry out the Association business in good faith etc. All the detail on the Board is in the By-laws in those four Articles listed above.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/05/2020 3:34 PM
the question is would giving resignation notice [to be effective a few weeks later, per the notice] and then a week later rescinding those resignations to instead vote off 2 other members by breach of good faith and therefore violate the CCRs in those actions?


Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/05/2020 5:27 PM
Yes, it is in the rest of 7.05. Here is the rest of it: "Any officer or Director may resign at any time, giving notice to the Board, the President, or the Secretary. Such resignation shall take effect on the date of receipt of such notice, or at any later time specified therein, and unless otherwise specified therein, the acceptance of such resignation shall not be necessary to make it effective."


The only thing the Texas Nonprofit Corporations statute says on this is: Sec. 22.2111. "RESIGNATION OF DIRECTOR. Except as provided by the certificate of formation or bylaws, a director of a corporation may resign at any time by providing written notice to the corporation."

The Texas HOA statute is silent on the subject.

In my opinion, as long as the effective date has not yet arrived, the board members may withdraw their notice of intent to resign. Per the Bylaws, these same board members may remove other directors via a majority vote. I cannot back up my opinion with any statute or case law at the moment. Though I am betting that nationwide, there is case law about the validity of rescinding a resignation set for a future date.

A 2012 Texas appeals court decision appears to support the Bylaws of a nonprofit dictating that a board majority may remove directors. As interested (wink), see https://cases.justia.com/texas/first-court-of-appeals/01-12-00443-cv.pdf?ts=1396150433
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 03/05/2020 7:12 PM
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/05/2020 3:34 PM
the question is would giving resignation notice [to be effective a few weeks later, per the notice] and then a week later rescinding those resignations to instead vote off 2 other members by breach of good faith and therefore violate the CCRs in those actions?


Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/05/2020 5:27 PM
Yes, it is in the rest of 7.05. Here is the rest of it: "Any officer or Director may resign at any time, giving notice to the Board, the President, or the Secretary. Such resignation shall take effect on the date of receipt of such notice, or at any later time specified therein, and unless otherwise specified therein, the acceptance of such resignation shall not be necessary to make it effective."


The only thing the Texas Nonprofit Corporations statute says on this is: Sec. 22.2111. "RESIGNATION OF DIRECTOR. Except as provided by the certificate of formation or bylaws, a director of a corporation may resign at any time by providing written notice to the corporation."

The Texas HOA statute is silent on the subject.

In my opinion, as long as the effective date has not yet arrived, the board members may withdraw their notice of intent to resign. Per the Bylaws, these same board members may remove other directors via a majority vote. I cannot back up my opinion with any statute or case law at the moment. Though I am betting that nationwide, there is case law about the validity of rescinding a resignation set for a future date.

A 2012 Texas appeals court decision appears to support the Bylaws of a nonprofit dictating that a board majority may remove directors. As interested (wink), see https://cases.justia.com/texas/first-court-of-appeals/01-12-00443-cv.pdf?ts=1396150433

Thanks.

What I thought was it might provided evidence they are not acting in good faith. If three people all gave notice of resignation, then at a meeting a few days later, all three revoked it and then all three voted to remove two other members, I would think one would logically conclude that all three conspired to do all the things ahead of time. I.e. what are the odds that those three decided to do all those things alone - they had to conspire. That conspiracy combined with those polar hostile actions would be evidence of not acting in good faith - "Acting in good faith, or bona fide, as it is sometimes also referred to by the courts, refers to the concept of being sincere in one's business dealings and without a desire to defraud, deceive, take undo advantage, or in any way act maliciously towards others."

That is where I was going in my thought process on the matter if it comes to pass.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Roger, I think you and I agree that it is only fair and reasonable to allow someone to withdraw her or his notice of resignation when the resignation is set for a future date. As for withdrawing the resignation thusly, and then voting off minority directors, said vote is lawful. While you allege a possible conspiracy, I see folks lawfully changing their mind. To me, it is politics. (It doesn't matter whether it is national, state, city, or HOA politics.) I think most politics, while often obnoxious, is legal conduct.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Roger cited: "Article Seven: Officers and Their Duties "- which is where 7.05 is located.

Which to quot it again: "7.05 Removal and Resignation. The Board may remove any Director from office, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the whole Board".

This means the Board can remove officers--it's in the Officers section of your bylaws.

Only the Owners (members) can remove directors: "4.05 Removal. Any Director may be removed from the Board, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the Members of the Association." (I rarely disagree with Augie)

So the three may not throw the 2 other directors off the Board.

Since the three did not send their letters of resignation to the right folks, their resignation imo, is not valid.

Again,, roger, this has nothing to dod with "good faith" as both Paul & I tried to explain.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/05/2020 7:43 PM
Roger cited: "Article Seven: Officers and Their Duties "- which is where 7.05 is located.

Which to quot it again: "7.05 Removal and Resignation. The Board may remove any Director from office, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the whole Board".

This means the Board can remove officers--it's in the Officers section of your bylaws.

Only the Owners (members) can remove directors: "4.05 Removal. Any Director may be removed from the Board, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the Members of the Association." (I rarely disagree with Augie)

So the three may not throw the 2 other directors off the Board.

Since the three did not send their letters of resignation to the right folks, their resignation imo, is not valid.

Again,, roger, this has nothing to dod with "good faith" as both Paul & I tried to explain.

Thanks for this. I was thinking the same thing on 7.05 with "remove from office" being the key part on wording alone plus being in Article Seven which deals with "Officers and Their Duties." Removing a Director from office, lowercase o, is not the same things as removing said Director from his Director position on the Board, especially considering that wording is in the "Officers and Their Duties" section.

In other words, under 7.05 as quoted above, the Board can remove a Director, who is the Treasurer, from the Treasurer office but not from his Director position, right?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Thank you, KerryL1. I think you (and now Roger) are correct: The board may only remove officers from their positions.

I hate that this forum does not allow the posting of governing documents without doing massive redaction of identifying information.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 03/05/2020 7:38 PM
Roger, I think you and I agree that it is only fair and reasonable to allow someone to withdraw her or his notice of resignation when the resignation is set for a future date. As for withdrawing the resignation thusly, and then voting off minority directors, said vote is lawful. While you allege a possible conspiracy, I see folks lawfully changing their mind. To me, it is politics. (It doesn't matter whether it is national, state, city, or HOA politics.) I think most politics, while often obnoxious, is legal conduct.

All politics is local. Someone said that. And it's true. Whenver I get to talk to a new homeowner and they voice disdain for "the politics" of the HOA I tend to write them off as being someone who'll be willing to get involved in the governance of the association. Sometimes they change their mind, but the first step is realizing that it is politics the minute two people disagree about something.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/05/2020 5:27 PM
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/05/2020 5:01 PM

So your bylaws say that the board must "accept" the resignation of the directors?


Yes, it is in the rest of 7.05. Here is the rest of it:

"Any officer or Director may resign at any time, giving notice to the Board, the President, or the Secretary. Such resignation shall take effect on the date of receipt of such notice, or at any later time specified therein, and unless otherwise specified therein, the acceptance of such resignation shall not be necessary to make it effective."

Note: Director is uppercase "D" and officer is lowercase "o".

Roger,

If you didn't copy and paste that quote directly regarding the removal of directors....

Are you sure it's directors that get removed by a board majority OR it's board officers that get removed by a simple board majority. There's a huge difference.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Roger did catch is error, Kelly. Review his recent posts.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Typically BOD Members can be removed by those that elected them. If elected by the BOD (typically to fill vacancies) they can be removed by the BOD. If elected by the owners, only a majority of owners can remove them.

It appears people are still confusing Officers with Directors (members of the BOD). Typically Officers are Directors but not all Directors are Officers.

The procedure for removing an Officer is different. Typically a BOD can call for an Election of Officers which would be among themselves. This is typically how to remove an Officer especially when a majority of the BOD wants to remove someone but the removed Officer is still a Director, just no longer an Officer.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
Hypothetically, it is possible for a board member to rescind a resignation if they’ve only made the resignation orally. However, once the resignation is official,the board must give the members permission to return.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Marshall: Huh? I don't follow. what makes the resignation official? In CA it's just delivery to th board with an effective date on it. But that person doesn't get to come back unless the board votes to have her/him fill the vacancy, right?
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
By the way, if everything goes smoothly and the three just go away, leaving two board members who will then appoint a third, I assume something needs to be done about the three just sending a notice to the membership when they were supposed to send their resignations to the Board, President or Secretary per the by-laws.

For check cashing authorization, dealing with outside parties, Directors insurance coverage, etc. I assume the resignation needs to be made official by the Board. The two remaining directors and the appointed third can check with the Association's legal council to see what needs to be done.

Anyone here know what it would likely entail? I am not an attorney, but my guess would be a letter, by the Board, to the three resigning people stating the Board accepts their resignations and even though notice was not sent directly to the Board, the Board recognizes their notice sent to Membership satisfying the notice requirement etc. all in legal proper speak.
DeidreB (Virginia)
Posts: 113
Posted:
I have seen years of board members who resigned simply with an email to all members of the association.

Since those resignation emails always included the BOD members and MC reps as well, no additional resignation was ever sought or needed.

It was considered a good practice by those associations and their MC's since the directors served the members. The By Laws were all the same: resignation letters to be sent to the board but sending to all members was never seen as an overstep because the directors represented and served all.

Once a director resigned, the board followed with a notice of an upcoming association meeting for an election to fill the vacancy or in some cases an announcement of the board seeking a new director to fill the recent vacancy, followed again by an appointment of that volunteer's name for the remained of the resigned director's term.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeidreB on 03/06/2020 7:02 PM
I have seen years of board members who resigned simply with an email to all members of the association.

Since those resignation emails always included the BOD members and MC reps as well, no additional resignation was ever sought or needed.

It was considered a good practice by those associations and their MC's since the directors served the members. The By Laws were all the same: resignation letters to be sent to the board but sending to all members was never seen as an overstep because the directors represented and served all.

Once a director resigned, the board followed with a notice of an upcoming association meeting for an election to fill the vacancy or in some cases an announcement of the board seeking a new director to fill the recent vacancy, followed again by an appointment of that volunteer's name for the remained of the resigned director's term.

Thanks. I was thinking the same thing, the directors are members so they were notified.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/05/2020 3:34 PM

3 members, of a 5 member Board, gave notice of resignation to be effective March 15th. That Board had a Board meeting on March 11 Hmmm ... a BOD meeting which occurred March 11 ... AND today is March 6th??? , and those 3 resigning Board members announced they decided to not resign, revoke their resignation notices and instead are going to vote the other 2 Board members off the board, which the Association's by-laws allow "with or without cause."

Basically the question is would giving resignation notice and then a week later rescinding those resignations to instead vote off 2 other members by breach of good faith and therefore violate the CCRs in those actions?


NOPE ... Basically the question is ... when did this scenario take place??? Last year??????? And asking questions now?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In CA and our bylaws, there's no need for the board to "accept" the resignations. What do your bylaws say?

The effective date of the resignations, date of the notice and the names of those resigning should be acknowledged by the Board and note in the next open meeting of the board.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Another question would be why are you posting essentially the same question twice???

https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/280275/view/topic/Default.aspx
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sorry, my above should have said "noted in the next open meeting MINUTES of the board."

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