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WalterH4 (Indiana)
Posts: 145
Posted:
In our older somewhat degraded neighborhood, we have a dozen tripping hazards on the sidewalks. A couple are 4" (caused by trees too close).

The neighbors who live at certain residences don't have means to repair these.

What might prevent the HOA from deciding to pay for sidewalk repair?

The city ultimately has responsibility for sidewalks here, but if they are made to address it, they simply grind it down, and do an ugly job to simply "remove the tripping hazard". We don't want an ugly job.

There may be opportunity to "share the cost" with city, and have it done right (we pay the difference).

Here is a blurb from our Declarations regarding "special assessments":
"In addition to Regular Assessments, the Board of Directors of the Association may make Special Assessments against each Residence Unit, for the purpose of defraying, in whole or in part, the cost of constructing, reconstructing, repairing or replacing any capital improvement which the Association is required to maintain or the cost of special maintenance and repairs or to recover any deficits (whether from operations or any other loss) which the Association may from time incur, but only with the assent of two-thirds (2/3) of the members of each class of members of the Association who cast votes In person or by proxy at a duly constituted meeting of the members of the Association called for such purpose."
===

Here it says "... or the cost of special maintenance and repairs..." but doesn't specify any constraints upon the objects of maintenance. So could it be applied to sidewalk leveling? (which aren't really the responsibility of the home owner)

And here it implies that you need super-majority approval, but only from those who vote. That seems reasonable to me. But in our case, we'd make sure it was a super-majority taken from at least half of our total membership, or we wouldn't do it.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
We have Association owned sidewalks - common sidewalks.

We have 314 houses with private sidewalks.

We have no municipal sidewalks.

Are you certain of yours? If the city owns them, why would you want your HOA to pay to repair them? (btw, 4” cannot be ground down)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are your sidewalks common area, or not?

Your CC&Rs says: a special assessment can be levied against owners "...for the purpose of defraying... the cost of constructing, reconstructing, repairing or replacing any capital improvement which the Association is required to maintain." If the sidewalks (or mailboxes) are not the obligation of the HOA to maintain/repair/replace, you may not specially assess the owners no matter how they vote.

To use you language the "objects of maintenance" must be common area or anything else the HOA is obliged to maintain.
DeidreB (Virginia)
Posts: 113
Posted:
Walter, My lesson learned on stuff like this is that if it ain't HOA business, it ain't HOA business. No matter how tempting it is. Pressure your city delegate to put some emphasis on some tax payer funded sidewalk maintenance.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Good advice, Drerdre.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Reach out to your city council person. twist their arm until they scream Uncle. Call your local Investigative news, get people in your affected streets that use scooters or wheelchairs, make tons of noise. Under no circumstances call for a special assessment to have owners subsidize the responsibility of the city entity.
DeidreB (Virginia)
Posts: 113
Posted:
One more point Walter. You mention the tripping hazard. Right now that liability rests with the city entirely. Should your HOA do anything to maintain that sidewalk, the potential liability for slips, trips and falls for passers-by will suddenly shift in your direction.

Also, should the maintenance any HOA performs, funds or contracts on public infrastructure turn out to be defective or in some way not to code or otherwise problematic (drainage for example), your HOA could be charged or sued for it. I was once in an HOA that thought they'd plow a county street that wasn't getting enough attention one winter. The plow damaged a curb. We were charged.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WalterH4 on 03/02/2020 5:57 PM

What might prevent the HOA from deciding to pay for sidewalk repair?

The city ultimately has responsibility for sidewalks here,

You answered your own question.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Walter seems dead set on spending other's money to fix things up to their standards. Everything would be so much better for Walter and his home values if the HOA would spend their money on all the compliance issues whether or not it's a responsibility.

Former HOA President
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 03/02/2020 9:40 PM
Reach out to your city council person. twist their arm until they scream Uncle. Call your local Investigative news, get people in your affected streets that use scooters or wheelchairs, make tons of noise. Under no circumstances call for a special assessment to have owners subsidize the responsibility of the city entity.

I suggest only going to this extreme as a last resort . . . after all attempts at working with the city are exhausted. Your HOA getting on the news for an undesirable situation (regardless of who is actually responsible for the situation) will most likely harm the reputation of your HOA and make it a place that (some) home-buyers will avoid. Sure it may more quickly help fix the immediate issue, but a reputation once tarnished takes time to reestablish.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
So you think going to media will effect home values then even worse than not having matching mailboxes or uneven sidewalks? Mmmm...

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Walter,

Do you have plans indicating sidewalk ownership? Has the city/county agreed they belong to them?

You’re not basing your statements on heresay?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WalterH4 on 03/02/2020 5:57 PM
In our older somewhat degraded neighborhood, we have a dozen tripping hazards on the sidewalks. A couple are 4" (caused by trees too close).
Are the trees on owners' property, city property, or HOA common area? They likely should be removed. Else they will continue to lift the sidewalks. It's a well-known problem.

Just curious: What species of trees are these?
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/03/2020 5:29 AM
So you think going to media will effect home values then even worse than not having matching mailboxes or uneven sidewalks? Mmmm...

Not sure I really understand your statement or where you are going with it. According to you, neither negative media attention, nor aesthetically disastrous mailboxes, nor common area neglect and safety issues would have any influence on a home's value since banks only care about comparable property values and that by itself determines another home's value.

You seem to stand alone on your inaccurate fixation on how a home's "value" is determined.

But yes, negative media attention toward an HOA, lack of curb-appeal or a sloppy aesthetic, and unsafe conditions . . . in my opinion will all definitely have a negative impact on a home's value and it's ability to sell rapidly and at the desired price. I don't know if any one of those things impact value to a greater extent than the others since that's something not easily measured. However I can guarantee they aren't adding value, and it's almost guaranteed that deteriorating conditions are not maintaining value . . . so all that's left is that they are harming value.
WalterH4 (Indiana)
Posts: 145
Posted:
Thanks for the advice everyone. This was helpful.

I'll go talk to the city more, and find out what other HOA's around here are doing for this issue, and go from there.

Our Declaration makes no mention of sidewalks explicitly.

But our Declaration does have a clause that permits "repair/maintenance" to be done on assets that are not explicitly named as HOA responsibility, requiring a 2/3rd vote for approval -- if we really wanted to pay for this ourselves, and assume the risks stated by others.

AugustinD, the trees are owned by the lot, not city. I'm not sure of the species.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I don't see that in your quote above, Walter. It specifies items that ARE the HOA's responsibility.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
2012 article citing Indiana's "Barrett law" (IC 36-9-36) on who maintains sidewalks:

https://www.goshennews.com/news/who-is-responsible-for-sidewalks-the-city-the-state-or/article_3a89622d-f811-56ea-853e-734fa7b317a8.html

http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2019/ic/titles/036#36-9-36

https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/indiana/in-code/indiana_code_title_36_article_9_chapter_37

If the city does not respond in a reasonable amount of time, I would not expect the broken sidewalks to be resolved any time soon.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Walter,

Do you have a plat? I'm sure your county/city has a GIS system that allows one to review plats on line? If not, you could certainly do it in person.

First steps!

It sounds like you are headed down the same path of spending HOA money on things not declared ...
WalterH4 (Indiana)
Posts: 145
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 03/03/2020 8:22 AM
2012 article citing Indiana's "Barrett law" (IC 36-9-36) on who maintains sidewalks:

https://www.goshennews.com/news/who-is-responsible-for-sidewalks-the-city-the-state-or/article_3a89622d-f811-56ea-853e-734fa7b317a8.html

http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2019/ic/titles/036#36-9-36

https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/indiana/in-code/indiana_code_title_36_article_9_chapter_37

If the city does not respond in a reasonable amount of time, I would not expect the broken sidewalks to be resolved any time soon.

Thanks for the links. Per the IC link (2nd link), it declares that the city here won't pay for sidewalk repair, but they have the power to force the homeowner to fix sidewalk issues (either DIY, or the city will have it done by their own contractor and forward the bill).

I'm still making calls to affirm the truth on how this is dealt with here, and how nearby HOA's have chosen to deal with this on their own (and the procedures/circumstances).

The first link is for Goshen City specifically, and so doesn't apply to us.
WalterH4 (Indiana)
Posts: 145
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/03/2020 8:14 AM
I don't see that in your quote above, Walter. It specifies items that ARE the HOA's responsibility.

Our Declaration specifies "repair" twice in the same sentence... the first application is explicitly for assets that are declared to be responsibility of the HOA, and the 2nd application is non-specific.

Here it is again:
"In addition to Regular Assessments, the Board of Directors of the Association may make Special Assessments against each Residence Unit, for the purpose of defraying, in whole or in part, the cost of constructing, reconstructing, repairing or replacing any capital improvement which the Association is required to maintain or the cost of special maintenance and repairs or to recover any deficits (whether from operations or any other loss) which the Association may from time incur, but only with the assent of two-thirds (2/3) of the members of each class of members of the Association who cast votes In person or by proxy at a duly constituted meeting of the members of the Association called for such purpose."

====
Note the phrase "or the cost of special maintenance and repairs" -- the words repair and maintain are mentioned twice in this sentence. The first instance is explicit, and the 2nd is not.

If the 2nd instance were supposed to only apply to explicit assets, then why bother even saying it the 2nd time -- it would be redundant. It is reasonable to assume that the 2nd usage wasn't just redundant/useless, but actually adds meaning to the sentence.

The Declaration enumerates responsibility, but then explicitly says "The responsibilities of the Association include, but shall not be limited to:", which means more powers may be derived.

The most important thing is that if we derive a new relevant responsibility, it must be supported by 2/3rd vote, to help ensure it's a good idea for the HOA, and not just something that benefits a few members, but not others.

If the super majority wants it, we are open to considering sidewalk repair as a HOA funded cost. We will note the risks to all members voting so that they can be informed before they vote.

Risks being:
1. Someone could file a grievance claim to stop the repairs. (we could choose to proceed only after 30 days after approval, to give folks time to file a complaint BEFORE we start work; if they file a claim, the HOA would then have to vote on how to deal with the claim - ignore it or concede).
2. HOA could be sued for poor workmanship. (maybe this is alleviated by getting bonded contractors who are self-insured?)

What are the other real risks here?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Walter, maybe you saw something in the IC that so far, I have not? The point of the Goshen link was to show how some cities are dealing with this in Indiana. One may google on {Barrett law Indiana sidewalks} and see what other Indiana cities are doing. It is not clear to me that the costs all end up on, say, the owner of the trees.

In my anecdotal experience, non-condo HOAs where the houses themselves are humble do seem to lose their attractive appearance starting around the 20 year point. This is due to a lack of enforcement of covenants and not maintaining common area landscaping. I can imagine the challenges your board is facing. I wish I could be more optimistic.
WalterH4 (Indiana)
Posts: 145
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 03/03/2020 9:38 AM
Walter, maybe you saw something in the IC that so far, I have not? The point of the Goshen link was to show how some cities are dealing with this in Indiana. One may google on {Barrett law Indiana sidewalks} and see what other Indiana cities are doing. It is not clear to me that the costs all end up on, say, the owner of the trees.

In my anecdotal experience, non-condo HOAs where the houses themselves are humble do seem to lose their attractive appearance starting around the 20 year point. This is due to a lack of enforcement of covenants and not maintaining common area landscaping. I can imagine the challenges your board is facing. I wish I could be more optimistic.

As always, I especially value your input. Thank you for the empathy.

The IC 36-9-36-17 thru -19, covers the procedure for sidewalk repair, and all of this implies that the homeowner must pay for it.

That said, just as with Goshen, there might be a cost-sharing plan that overrides the IC law for certain cases.

Despite your lack of optimism, I am very optimistic that we can make a few changes here that'll raise property values, while also raising overall HOA morale. We're more focused on doing things that garner super-majority support (of the 50%+), and using our surplus funds to conduct a few improvements that overall will let folks know "this HOA is alive, healthy, and happy". The angry members will be in the minority, and probably scant in number. You can't please everyone, and that's OK.

Our alternatives are "status quo" or taking unpopular actions that make the majority unhappy. Status quo would be the easiest, and very few would raise a stink about it, although many here would like to see some things upgraded/restored.

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